Downtown Baseball Stadium

[AlkaliAxel]

I love the vision. Grand to Oak is simply not wide enough. It's barely wide enough to plant the actual field between those two streets.

But how is it not? Target Field fit into an 8.5 acre site and this is 8.8 acres. That's what I don't get. I think it's just a matter of willpower.

[herrfrank]

The field has certain required dimensions, and there are also dugouts and other facilities that need to be close to the home base.

The ideal space is fairly near to a square.

[DColeKC]

ok "group of professionals" explain why this that crossroads location is the sexy pick. Nothing like talking down to those who have a differing opinion of what's best for the neighborhood we actually live in but please, let us know.

"We know what's best" - Designers of the highway loop among others who have come in to make downtown 'better"

You're clearly thinking of YOUR neighborhood and not what's best for all of downtown. Understandable but not a realistic approach. Of course with the city heavily involved all neighborhoods impacted will be considered. It's not like they have total disregard for existing buildings, business's and residents.

Don't compare traffic engineers to those making these decisions. It's not even a close comparison. These people have done projects that require demolishing buildings both blighted and in-use. They know the battle it is and the sensitive nature of the project.

I'm on here as an outlet so I'm not as PC as I'd be at a public town hall. I'm also being blunt and not trying to sway votes or sell any one location. Like I said, I have fun no matter where it goes. I'm excited to get to the next step soon.

Your single factor as far as I can tell is "what is closest to Cordish". you've provided no other information or factors that make the east crossroads the sexy location. I asked you to list those and your response completely avoided the question.

You can't even state who you are referring to as "those" making this decision. I mean what is the point of these posts?

If proximity to PNL was my big push I’d be obsessed with the 13th and grand lot. I’m not.

Sexy is just a term like cool. What you and I think is cool is absolutely different.

[KCPowercat]

It probably isn't different but you said professionals that do this think it's the sexy site. I don't see it. Hence I asked for reasons. I got ignored. Now twice.

[DaveKCMO]

Crossroads here! The Rosie Privitera proposal is a non-starter. Rampant demolition of East Crossroads will meet nuclear force.

Please move on.

[WoodDraw]

Yeah, Crossroads here and uh, good luck with that. I just assumed it was a person with interest in the property trying to get rid of it. I didn't know people were taking it seriously.

[AlkaliAxel]

Why do you value the cap over anything else downtown?

Because I genuinely believe KC's biggest problem is walkability & shitty land use (which go hand in hand).

Every great city I've been to or lived had one thing in common- you didn't ever have to worry about highways, railroad tracks, or walk obscene distances through empty land to see other city attractions. You can't ever see a picture of KC without an interstate somewhere in the photo. I think KC has some amazing districts - particularly the River Market & Crossroads- but it's fucking crazy that to get to either of them you have to across a damn interstate. The streetcar helped alot but we need more. Even though you can technically walk the shitty sidewalk over the interstates it's just disgusting. That's why I hated 18th & Vine for a stadium so much because it's yet again another fucking highway. So yes, I imagine a KC where you can seamlessly get across to the RM or Crossroads without seeing an interstate. When that happens, then I believe we'll be able to hit a critical mass & properly show off KC.

So put the stadium at Jail site if that'll get the Loop to continue being capped & it'll ease up the walking distances from the core.

[WoodDraw]

People often talk about walkability but what they really mean is the city is overly designed around cars.

I don't think a stadium there will contribute to a walkable city in the way you think it will. Just more urban infrastructure given over to cars for a place that is rarely active.

[alejandro46]

I mean Target Field is on 9 acres, this site is significantly narrower than that.

Actually, this isn't correct. Target Field is an 8.5 acre site on 4 blocks. KCBJ says this site tearing down the KC Star & McGee would be 8.8 acres on 4 blocks- slightly bigger. This site would be about the same size as the Twins stadium, which actually proves that this could very likely hold a stadium for the Royals (and wouldn't even need the 40k seats that Target has)

There's no need to go east of this site and rip down far more buildings. It can fit. Build on Grand & tear down the Star building!

I am no expert. Just talking hypotheticals and (very) rough measurements here for perspective.
Measured on Google Maps:
KC Star Site:
Oak to Grand Distance: 580.89 ft.
17th St. to Truman Road: 794 ft.
Target Field: ~700 ft x ~667 ft

One of the smallest (and not a good stadium) stadiums in MLB is Tropicana Field. ~754 ft. diameter. Target field has one of the smallest footprints in MLB already. Based on the chat above that the KC Start site wasn't in active consideration, I concluded it to be too narrow (not to small completely). But obviously this is just spectulation/opinion. Nearly "anything" is possible, it just could be expensive and/or lead to comprimises in seating and views with a small footprint.

[AlkaliAxel]

People often talk about walkability but what they really mean is the city is overly designed around cars.

I don't think a stadium there will contribute to a walkable city in the way you think it will. Just more urban infrastructure given over to cars for a place that is rarely active.

That’s fine. I get the “it’s only active 81 days” pitch but the way I see it, it’s either staring at a surface lot for decades or filling it with an awesome stadium. For the rest of the time. Because that’s all we’re gonna get otherwise- just surface lots.

[AlkaliAxel]

One of the smallest (and not a good stadium) stadiums in MLB is Tropicana Field. ~754 ft. diameter. Target field has one of the smallest footprints in MLB already. Based on the chat above that the KC Start site wasn't in active consideration, I concluded it to be too narrow (not to small completely). But obviously this is just spectulation/opinion. Nearly "anything" is possible, it just could be expensive and/or lead to comprimises in seating and views with a small footprint.

Yeah I’m done trying to sell people on the Crossroads site. I gave it a push with words & visuals and not even DCole bit at it.

So I’m back to pushing the Jail Site again. It’s the only high quality site left from what I can tell.

[WoodDraw]

People often talk about walkability but what they really mean is the city is overly designed around cars.

I don't think a stadium there will contribute to a walkable city in the way you think it will. Just more urban infrastructure given over to cars for a place that is rarely active.

That’s fine. I get the “it’s only active 81 days” pitch but the way I see it, it’s either staring at a surface lot for decades or filling it with an awesome stadium. For the rest of the time. Because that’s all we’re gonna get otherwise- just surface lots.

Sprint center is still surrounded by parking lots?

Everyone here is obsessed with location where I want to see the plan for the area.

[KCDowntown]

If the stadium ends up in East Village (in all its isolated glory), what can we do to make this area integrate with a downtown who's most active areas are 6 blocks (8-10 minute walk) to the west? There are some definite challenges - but I don't think its hopeless. However, I also don't think a stadium district based on the ATL Battery Live area is the way to go either.

This assumes the stadium is located on the 4 blocks from 10th -12th / Cherry to Charlotte, and that they are going to build something on the other 4 blocks that VanTrust owns in the area to the north.

Some positives:

• Many buildings along 12th have street-level retail capabilities west to east - Chambers Building, Town Pavilion, Canopy on Grand (if it ever happens), Traders on Grand, Argyle Building, City Hall Parking Garage, Zoo Bar building. Activating 12th from the core to the east is not impossible.
• Two Copaken lots north of T-Mobile center offer opportunity for future development that could greatly assist in connecting things east to west
• When the Bell Haus project (or whatever it is being called) is completed there will be roughly 1,400 people living east of Oak (Manhattan, View, Metropolitan, Bell Haus)
• Terminal vista along 11th will be attractive although fewer possibilities for street-level improvement along this street

Some negatives:

• Still a two block dead zone of government buildings from Oak to Cherry
• To help with any public vote there's going to have to be serious parking garages built in the area, hopefully they back up to the highway, cause I figure underground parking won't happen
• Even with 1,000 people nearby the area isn't nearly dense enough. West of Oak inside the loop there are about 10,000 residents on 100 blocks (100 people per block), east of Oak there will be (after Bell Haus) approx. 1,400 residents on 40 blocks (35 people per block). To get those numbers close the city needs to add about 2,500 residents to the east side.
• Hotel room stock is even further away
• If the Battery Live area in ATL is a guide, it look like it has about 700 apartments in 3 6-ish story buildings along with some pre-existing and new office buildings in the area. You can see in the tenant mix that they are trying to keep it active with some destination places (Punch Bowl Social, movie theater, a couple nice hotels), but it has the feel that it isn't quite enough the other 250 days a year

What I would do:

• Encourage 1st phase residential and hotels in the development - nothing will help bring people to the area like an already active area. Unfortunately, this area is starting pretty close to zero in these departments. That's approx 5 towers the size of the Light buildings to match the density in the core (not saying that will happen, just trying to make a visual). The more residents the better. I don't think 700 apts total will cut it.
• Leave some space / pathway for future development. There's only so much space in the East Village - if they use it all up without sufficient density then they're stuck with what they have.
• Make 12th street as attractive as possible, if people are going to gravitate west to east better clean up the view along the way. Likewise for people jumping off the streetcar at 12th. Special streetlights, more trees, etc...
• Allow street vendors and some food trucks in the government district on game day, just to help mitigate the dead zone
• Drop 12th from 3 to 2 Lanes and add to the sidewalk width
• Tear down the Jackson Country jail and the vacant MO state building for future development. (Hopefully that statement draws a little less ire from everyone). Any government uses that can be removed should be to make the area less 'governmenty'.

If you look at pictures of Coors Field when it opened in 1995 vs. pictures today development is slowly filling in around the stadium. Granted they had a head start with the LoDo district nearby along with their Union Station. However, the optimist side of me says it could be done here with some time and patience.

KCDowntown

Some visuals:
Live! at the Battery Atlanta


Coors Field

[AlkaliAxel]

• Make 12th street as attractive as possible, if people are going to gravitate west to east better clean up the view along the way. Likewise for people jumping off the streetcar at 12th. Special streetlights, more trees, etc...
• Tear down the Jackson Country jail and the vacant MO state building for future development. (Hopefully that statement draws a little less ire from everyone). Any government uses that can be removed should be to make the area less 'governmenty'.

These two are the key. If we're not getting the Crossroads sites, then I want new buildings around this stadium. Ones you can see over the outfield.

I'm not sure if the North Loop site is still under consideration, but I think that might be the next best spot.

[KCPowercat]

If the stadium ends up in East Village (in all its isolated glory), what can we do to make this area integrate with a downtown who's most active areas are 6 blocks (8-10 minute walk) to the west? There are some definite challenges - but I don't think its hopeless. However, I also don't think a stadium district based on the ATL Battery Live area is the way to go either.

This assumes the stadium is located on the 4 blocks from 10th -12th / Cherry to Charlotte, and that they are going to build something on the other 4 blocks that VanTrust owns in the area to the north.

Some positives:

• Many buildings along 12th have street-level retail capabilities west to east - Chambers Building, Town Pavilion, Canopy on Grand (if it ever happens), Traders on Grand, Argyle Building, City Hall Parking Garage, Zoo Bar building. Activating 12th from the core to the east is not impossible.
• Two Copaken lots north of T-Mobile center offer opportunity for future development that could greatly assist in connecting things east to west
• When the Bell Haus project (or whatever it is being called) is completed there will be roughly 1,400 people living east of Oak (Manhattan, View, Metropolitan, Bell Haus)
• Terminal vista along 11th will be attractive although fewer possibilities for street-level improvement along this street

Some negatives:

• Still a two block dead zone of government buildings from Oak to Cherry
• To help with any public vote there's going to have to be serious parking garages built in the area, hopefully they back up to the highway, cause I figure underground parking won't happen
• Even with 1,000 people nearby the area isn't nearly dense enough. West of Oak inside the loop there are about 10,000 residents on 100 blocks (100 people per block), east of Oak there will be (after Bell Haus) approx. 1,400 residents on 40 blocks (35 people per block). To get those numbers close the city needs to add about 2,500 residents to the east side.
• Hotel room stock is even further away
• If the Battery Live area in ATL is a guide, it look like it has about 700 apartments in 3 6-ish story buildings along with some pre-existing and new office buildings in the area. You can see in the tenant mix that they are trying to keep it active with some destination places (Punch Bowl Social, movie theater, a couple nice hotels), but it has the feel that it isn't quite enough the other 250 days a year

What I would do:

• Encourage 1st phase residential and hotels in the development - nothing will help bring people to the area like an already active area. Unfortunately, this area is starting pretty close to zero in these departments. That's approx 5 towers the size of the Light buildings to match the density in the core (not saying that will happen, just trying to make a visual). The more residents the better. I don't think 700 apts total will cut it.
• Leave some space / pathway for future development. There's only so much space in the East Village - if they use it all up without sufficient density then they're stuck with what they have.
• Make 12th street as attractive as possible, if people are going to gravitate west to east better clean up the view along the way. Likewise for people jumping off the streetcar at 12th. Special streetlights, more trees, etc...
• Allow street vendors and some food trucks in the government district on game day, just to help mitigate the dead zone
• Drop 12th from 3 to 2 Lanes and add to the sidewalk width
• Tear down the Jackson Country jail and the vacant MO state building for future development. (Hopefully that statement draws a little less ire from everyone). Any government uses that can be removed should be to make the area less 'governmenty'.

If you look at pictures of Coors Field when it opened in 1995 vs. pictures today development is slowly filling in around the stadium. Granted they had a head start with the LoDo district nearby along with their Union Station. However, the optimist side of me says it could be done here with some time and patience.

KCDowntown

Some visuals:
Live! at the Battery Atlanta


Coors Field

I agree with all of this. I don't see the need for a massive amount of be parking here though. Definitely will build some cut much less then would be needed at crossroads

[earthling]

And more buildings like the Comcast building and Omni hotel but more closely integrated into ballpark rather than a standalone stadium. EV would be perfect opportunity for a few multi-function buildings closely integrated into stadium - some office lower floors, hotel mid floors, with residential on top and retail at base, up to 30 floors each. The more investors involved across broader/shared functions, the less public funding needed.

[DColeKC]

Crossroads here! The Rosie Privitera proposal is a non-starter. Rampant demolition of East Crossroads will meet nuclear force.

Please move on.

What about the dozens of crossroads business owners who I’ve seen share with excitement? You represent them as well?

[DColeKC]

Sounds like Dave is willing to glue himself to these buildings in east crossroads and while I like the mayors chances Vs Dave, I’ll just pretend crossroads isn’t a real possibility for now.

Jail site moves to #1. EV won’t have the results that best benefit all of downtown.

[KCPowercat]

What results that benefit all of downtown do you mean?

[KCPowercat]

Crossroads here! The Rosie Privitera proposal is a non-starter. Rampant demolition of East Crossroads will meet nuclear force.

Please move on.

What about the dozens of crossroads business owners who I’ve seen share with excitement? You represent them as well?

Who?