Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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KCPowercat
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

Yeah I don't know what that response had to do with the tweet.

That site is going to take a lot more work getting property and way more infrastructure upgrades. Seems like a lot harder site to make work properly.
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

DColeKC wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:22 pm The views from behind home plate would be a massive win for this location. A true showcase of the downtown skyline and yes, the ATT LL building sucks but this would make that building have ballpark views. Making it more realistic for the developer to transform the exterior look of the building.

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That would be facing northwest. Stadiums generally face northeast, so that view would be from along 1st base/right field.

A few stadiums face due north, so you could possibly have a view like this from home plate:

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I really hate having to tear down useful buildings, but aside from that, I do think this site has a number of advantages.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Actually after seeing this^ angle I like alot more. This site could make sense. You'd need to tear down the Star building though to make it really work, forget about trying to fuse it. Again, I wonder if we could get a couple decent sized towers here along Truman from it.

Honestly, all of the sites have made atleast some sense except for 18th & Vine. That was the only true nonsensical location.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

The views of the skyline make no impact to me in figuring out best location. I would hope anybody making this decision is a little more engaged with the neighborhood than what the view is in the outfield.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:32 pm The views of the skyline make no impact to me in figuring out best location. I would hope anybody making this decision is a little more engaged with the neighborhood than what the view is in the outfield.
Agree
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Critical_Mass »

DColeKC wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:39 pm What downtown fabric?
This downtown fabric:

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Along with the printing press building, site 1 in yellow would remove around 6 or 7 restaurant/bars, a church, an event space and other retail (dry cleaner, tattoo parlor: The Harlow, SoT, Pokesan, Mama Ramen, Cigar Box, Kobi Q, Resurrection Downtown and more.

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Site 2 in cyan would remove The Truman music venue, The Guild event space, the U-Haul Moving and Storage facility, and dozens of small businesses including Chartreuse Saloon, The Pairing, Paradise Garden Club, Madison Flitch, Whiskey Beard Barbershop, Apex Engineers and others. There are still some rough spots that need some investment, but the area has seen massive improvement over the past decade and has the bones and a growing collection of tenants with a 'hip' cache that suburbs trying to rebuild their downtowns would kill for. All it needs is a couple 5+1 multifamily residential buildings to infill some of the gaps and you'd have a vibrant neighborhood.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

Taking out anything on grand is a complete non starter. I'll chain myself to those buildings. That's insane talk.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

normalthings wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:37 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:32 pm The views of the skyline make no impact to me in figuring out best location. I would hope anybody making this decision is a little more engaged with the neighborhood than what the view is in the outfield.
Agree
Disagree as much as humanly possible. The vast majority of fans sit behind home plate or one of the baselines looking out. What they see is important and is a major opportunity to showcase a cities downtown. Then you factor in what that shot looks like from behind the catcher on TV. My biggest complaint about Kauffman is the fact you see a horrendous representation of Kansas City as you look beyond the outfield walls.

A modern version of Crown Vision with the downtown skyline behind it would be beautiful and one giant billboard for downtown Kansas City. It's a major consideration and should be.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:05 pm
normalthings wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:37 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:32 pm The views of the skyline make no impact to me in figuring out best location. I would hope anybody making this decision is a little more engaged with the neighborhood than what the view is in the outfield.
Agree
Disagree as much as humanly possible. The vast majority of fans sit behind home plate or one of the baselines looking out. What they see is important and is a major opportunity to showcase a cities downtown. Then you factor in what that shot looks like from behind the catcher on TV. My biggest complaint about Kauffman is the fact you see a horrendous representation of Kansas City as you look beyond the outfield walls.

A modern version of Crown Vision with the downtown skyline behind it would be beautiful and one giant billboard for downtown Kansas City. It's a major consideration and should be.
If we built up a couple more towers behind the outfield, we'd basically have a complete 360 view of towers pretty similar to Petco Park- which IMO is the gold standard of stadiums.

Equally important is weaving in with the neighborhood, which means filling out the whole south loop cap & using the stadium to spur development in all these surface lots in the Crossroads. Design stadium in brick and it weaves right in wonderfully. The more I think about it, I think this spot could be a big win.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 pm Taking out anything on grand is a complete non starter. I'll chain myself to those buildings. That's insane talk.
The version requiring removal of that section on Grand is only the KC Printing press building owners fantasy. That being said, the only business on the block that has any kind of historical significance is Cigar Box. I know we all want to save Totally Nude and the corner bar now called Prime.

As for site 2 to the east of the printing press building, there's nothing there that couldn't be relocated, especially if financially beneficial for those current tenants. 1/4th of the area is owned by one entity willing sell.

Like mentioned, EV is the easiest location but it's not the best from a stadium success perspective. I'd rather not go with what's easiest and will ruffle the fewest feathers. No matter where it goes, there will be public backlash but that will fade and we will still have a huge stadium for 5 decades. It best be in the 100% perfect location.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:19 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 pm Taking out anything on grand is a complete non starter. I'll chain myself to those buildings. That's insane talk.
The version requiring removal of that section on Grand is only the KC Printing press building owners fantasy. That being said, the only business on the block that has any kind of historical significance is Cigar Box. I know we all want to save Totally Nude and the corner bar now called Prime.
This is missing the point completely for us trying to save our built neighborhood which obviously has less importance to some here. My comment has has nothing to do with saving those particular businesses.

Like mentioned, EV is the easiest location but it's not the best from a stadium success perspective.... It best be in the 100% perfect location.
That like your opinion man.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCDowntown »

Seeing those pictures of all those great buildings is tugging on the heartstrings - thanks for taking the time to post all of those Critical_Mass.

I'm still taking the Crossroads site over EV though.

Think what the best week of the year downtown (Big 12 Tourney basketball week) would look like if the Sprint Center was located in the East Village. I think it would be a lot different, and not in a better way. Downtown lights up because everything is close together, so the proximity to hotels and amenities still sells it for me. The stadium is going to be an economic engine for DT and the closer we can get it to the core of the city the better, in my opinion. If they surround it with parking structures though I will have to come back and beg everyone's forgiveness.

My choices in order are:
1. Jail Site (proximity without so much destruction)
2. North Crossroads (proximity with some painful collateral damage)
3. EV
4. 18th & Vine

KCDowntown
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:30 pm
DColeKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:19 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 pm Taking out anything on grand is a complete non starter. I'll chain myself to those buildings. That's insane talk.
The version requiring removal of that section on Grand is only the KC Printing press building owners fantasy. That being said, the only business on the block that has any kind of historical significance is Cigar Box. I know we all want to save Totally Nude and the corner bar now called Prime.
This is missing the point completely for us trying to save our built neighborhood which obviously has less importance to some here. My comment has has nothing to do with saving those particular businesses.

Like mentioned, EV is the easiest location but it's not the best from a stadium success perspective.... It best be in the 100% perfect location.
That like your opinion man.
I understand the point, I just don't agree with it which is fine. I was joking about the strip club and the revolving door of failed bars on the corner. Point is only one of those businesses in that block have been there for a significant amount of time so we're simply talking about saving buildings, not businesses. And this could be a great thing for many of the small businesses in the area even if it means they'll have to move.

It would be an embarrassment to force a stadium in a inferior location in order to save buildings only to look back 15 years later when those buildings have cycled through 2, 3 or 4 different tenants while the Royals are stuck in the same stadium location for half a century.

Even if this new stadium ends up somewhere that requires no demolition of existing buildings and eats up parking lots, there will still be pissed off people. I do know the EV location won't be nearly as impactful to those same business owners you're advocating for right now.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

Which businesses am I advocating for? This is purely about us stopping the further destruction of my neighborhood. It pretty clear you don't care about that and that's fine but we made this mistake down here too many times and we are a shell of the downtown we used to be because of it.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Probably gonna have to go mostly private if they want the Crossroads location. Too many will be angry about it. Hope they have a method to go private.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by FangKC »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:05 pm
normalthings wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:37 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:32 pm The views of the skyline make no impact to me in figuring out best location. I would hope anybody making this decision is a little more engaged with the neighborhood than what the view is in the outfield.
Agree
Disagree as much as humanly possible. The vast majority of fans sit behind home plate or one of the baselines looking out. What they see is important and is a major opportunity to showcase a cities downtown. Then you factor in what that shot looks like from behind the catcher on TV. My biggest complaint about Kauffman is the fact you see a horrendous representation of Kansas City as you look beyond the outfield walls.

A modern version of Crown Vision with the downtown skyline behind it would be beautiful and one giant billboard for downtown Kansas City. It's a major consideration and should be.
Let's just demolish entire blocks of buildings, and remove those businesses just so there is a view for fans attending games downtown 20 percent of the year. People have to stop making this a calculation about what is the best view from the stands.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by earthling »

Given that the stadium architects are unfortunately inspired by the Atlanta stadium approach it would be double whammy sadness to see the character of these buildings replaced by sanitized manufactured culture and an isolated standalone stadium. Given chances are the results may suck, this needs to go into mostly existing open lots because at least it would be better than surface lots.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:51 pm Which businesses am I advocating for? This is purely about us stopping the further destruction of my neighborhood. It pretty clear you don't care about that and that's fine but we made this mistake down here too many times and we are a shell of the downtown we used to be because of it.
Huh? I don't think a billion dollar stadium is the destruction of a neighborhood and a shell of what downtown used to be? You referring to the early 1900's or what because today's downtown is the best it's ever been. Are you one of those guys that stops liking bands when they become popular to the mainstream? "Downtown sold out man, I remember when it was way easier to score dope and a hooker down here."

What mistakes have been made that have negatively impacted "YOUR" neighborhood?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

FangKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:34 pm
DColeKC wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:05 pm
normalthings wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:37 pm

Agree
Disagree as much as humanly possible. The vast majority of fans sit behind home plate or one of the baselines looking out. What they see is important and is a major opportunity to showcase a cities downtown. Then you factor in what that shot looks like from behind the catcher on TV. My biggest complaint about Kauffman is the fact you see a horrendous representation of Kansas City as you look beyond the outfield walls.

A modern version of Crown Vision with the downtown skyline behind it would be beautiful and one giant billboard for downtown Kansas City. It's a major consideration and should be.
Let's just demolish entire blocks of buildings, and remove those businesses just so there is a view for fans attending games downtown 20 percent of the year. People have to stop making this a calculation about what is the best view from the stands.
Why do sports teams layer the outfield walls and structure with LED boards? Because that view is highly valuable. How many kids will sit there looking out at the KC Skyline and get excited about living downtown one day? How many fans from across the country will sit there and be impressed by our skyline and go home to brag about the visit? How many people will see the epic shots on TV and decide to visit KC or move to KC?

It's one of the many considerations when building a new downtown stadium. It's not the only consideration and it's not the determining factor.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:37 pm Given that the stadium architects are unfortunately inspired by the Atlanta stadium approach it would be double whammy sadness to see the character of these buildings replaced by sanitized manufactured culture and an isolated standalone stadium. Given chances are the results may suck, this needs to go into mostly existing open lots because at least it would be better than surface lots.
The Atlanta stadium and surrounding area is one of the better fan experiences in baseball. It was all new build too so it does lack some established character. This is what we will get with the EV location. The crossroads location doesn't allow for several blocks of filler space which would be generic commercial buildings leased by the Royals like the EV location.
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