Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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taxi
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by taxi »

DColeKC wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm What do fans do during the hours before and after the game. That’s relative. Not what they’ll do if they make it a family weekend trip. Fans won’t check out crown center or union station on a game day. They want to eat and drink. Celebrate a big win or drown their sorrows after a big lose.
They go to Zoo Bar.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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taxi wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:32 pm
DColeKC wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm What do fans do during the hours before and after the game. That’s relative. Not what they’ll do if they make it a family weekend trip. Fans won’t check out crown center or union station on a game day. They want to eat and drink. Celebrate a big win or drown their sorrows after a big lose.
They go to Zoo Bar.
Best dive bar in kc.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

DColeKC wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm
shinatoo wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:38 pm 1. Washington Park is only about 570 feet wide. And you would need something well over 600ft for a modern stadium.

2. The idea that Washington Park is in the middle of nothing is ludicrous.
Relative to what ownership and the mlb see as added layers to enhance a fans overall experience, Washington Park isn’t near anything. So middle of nothing. What do fans do during the hours before and after the game. That’s relative. Not what they’ll do if they make it a family weekend trip. Fans won’t check out crown center or union station on a game day. They want to eat and drink. Celebrate a big win or drown their sorrows after a big lose.

If Washington Park was the only option, they’d stay at TSC.
You make some good points, fans would have to walk to the crossroads for your more traditional ballpark type retail (bars and restaurants). A stadium won't fit there anyway although a soccer stadium would be perfect there. It's just fun playing with photoshop.

What is this P&L location? I know the EV and the Jail site, but is there a site near the P&L district? The big void where the library used to be? That's smaller than the Washington SQ park and isn't there a plan now to build an apartment building there?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

DColeKC wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm
shinatoo wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:38 pm 1. Washington Park is only about 570 feet wide. And you would need something well over 600ft for a modern stadium.

2. The idea that Washington Park is in the middle of nothing is ludicrous.
Relative to what ownership and the mlb see as added layers to enhance a fans overall experience, Washington Park isn’t near anything. So middle of nothing. What do fans do during the hours before and after the game. That’s relative. Not what they’ll do if they make it a family weekend trip. Fans won’t check out crown center or union station on a game day. They want to eat and drink. Celebrate a big win or drown their sorrows after a big lose.

If Washington Park was the only option, they’d stay at TSC.
It's not, so moot.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Do you think we could incorporate that old AT&T building into a new Royals stadium like Petco Park did with that old Western mineral building?

Here’s an example of Petco doing it: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/689261917950694052/
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

GRID wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:26 pm
DColeKC wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm
shinatoo wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:38 pm 1. Washington Park is only about 570 feet wide. And you would need something well over 600ft for a modern stadium.

2. The idea that Washington Park is in the middle of nothing is ludicrous.
Relative to what ownership and the mlb see as added layers to enhance a fans overall experience, Washington Park isn’t near anything. So middle of nothing. What do fans do during the hours before and after the game. That’s relative. Not what they’ll do if they make it a family weekend trip. Fans won’t check out crown center or union station on a game day. They want to eat and drink. Celebrate a big win or drown their sorrows after a big lose.

If Washington Park was the only option, they’d stay at TSC.
You make some good points, fans would have to walk to the crossroads for your more traditional ballpark type retail (bars and restaurants). A stadium won't fit there anyway although a soccer stadium would be perfect there. It's just fun playing with photoshop.

What is this P&L location? I know the EV and the Jail site, but is there a site near the P&L district? The big void where the library used to be? That's smaller than the Washington SQ park and isn't there a plan now to build an apartment building there?
I think it's a fantastic soccer stadium site,

P&L location as it has been nicknamed is the surface parking lot at 13th and Grand. It is a tight fit and would require the integration or removal of the CBE. P&L site could be combined with the jail site for the ultimate location. IMHO of course.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Using the Washington Park site would be complicated if the railroad isn't cooperative. The railroad may not be willing to give up the airspace over the tracks, at least cheaply. And don't know if a local government entity can use eminent domain over a railroad and if it can the condemnation process could be a long affair. And if the park is dedicated parkland it would probably take a vote of the people to release it as dedicated parkland. The Park Board could cooperate to "rent" the space but I am sure there would be some public objection to its use as a stadium site.
In other words a 2026 date wouldn't likely happen because of the additional work involved.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

The EV or this "jail house" site seem to be the most likely. The Other Building around the jailhouse site are a question mark. Plus not sure how demolition of building plays into cost and timetable, not to mention questions about what you can and cannot tear down.

For this I would assume the EV and its parcels of vacant parking lots/lots would be the easiest solution. If you can secure the land you can immediately start building the new stadium, no tear down of existing properties. This and given the Royals' ownership group already has financial stakes in some of the EV parcels, I would suspect that is the location.

It checks the boxes they want and spurs development on the East side of downtown which has lagged behind. Plus it will have a transformative effect to the North into Columbus Park and area leading into it, East into the Paseo West area and Independence Ave areas, and South into the East Crossroads, which has picked up a lot over the recent years but more infill will most likely occur down Charlotte to 18th St. and back West to meet up what has been marching East.

For my money I would bet on EV, but between there in the jailhouse site seem very close odds wise
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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dukuboy1 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:05 pm The EV or this "jail house" site seem to be the most likely. The Other Building around the jailhouse site are a question mark. Plus not sure how demolition of building plays into cost and timetable, not to mention questions about what you can and cannot tear down.

For this I would assume the EV and its parcels of vacant parking lots/lots would be the easiest solution. If you can secure the land you can immediately start building the new stadium, no tear down of existing properties. This and given the Royals' ownership group already has financial stakes in some of the EV parcels, I would suspect that is the location.

It checks the boxes they want and spurs development on the East side of downtown which has lagged behind. Plus it will have a transformative effect to the North into Columbus Park and area leading into it, East into the Paseo West area and Independence Ave areas, and South into the East Crossroads, which has picked up a lot over the recent years but more infill will most likely occur down Charlotte to 18th St. and back West to meet up what has been marching East.

For my money I would bet on EV, but between there in the jailhouse site seem very close odds wise
I think it comes down to the will of the investors. I think some development, mostly residential will be spurred by either of these locations. EV hasn't taken off because people have been land banking. If it's decided that EV won't be the site of a new stadium, those land bankers will be looking to profit and unload.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

dukuboy1 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:05 pm The EV or this "jail house" site seem to be the most likely. The Other Building around the jailhouse site are a question mark. Plus not sure how demolition of building plays into cost and timetable, not to mention questions about what you can and cannot tear down.

For this I would assume the EV and its parcels of vacant parking lots/lots would be the easiest solution.
For my money I would bet on EV, but between there in the jailhouse site seem very close odds wise
I'm not gonna cry or be upset if it's EV in the end.

But I think the jail site & its spinoff would be much much better for downtown.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Just listened to the John Sherman radio interview this morning:

He said that the "interesting part about getting WC2026, given that it's the greatest sport-show on earth with the whole world here for 2 weeks" is that "the preparation for our stadium will be really interesting and how we're thinking about our stadium with it"

AKA- we want to be downtown 2026 during the World Cup if we can
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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NOTE: This is pure speculation.

I've been tracking changes in land ownership downtown since the talks about a downtown stadium to see if I can get a jump on where it's going to be located. So, I occasionally hit the parcel viewer to see if I notice any ownership changes (I haven't). However, I remember a comment on here that the decking over of the I-670 trench might get extended further east, which I interpreted as possibly pointing to the jail site. However, I noticed today that the far eastern southern side of the trench has a lot of land in 'friendly' hands. Abbott owns most of the block bounded by 15th - 16th between Cherry and Holmes and the city owns a lot of the block between 15th - 16th between Holmes and Charlotte. JTB, the parking lot speculators, even own a lot right there. Just throwing this wild idea out there so I can claim credit if my late-night ramblings prove true.

Mostly I was just surprised to see the city owning 2/3 of a block in this area, but the site does have access to a bunch of highways, and if the deck is expanded east suddenly you have a pretty walkable connection to the main amenities downtown.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Eon Blue »

I do recall that MoDOT/KCMO doesn't plan to replace the Holmes over 670 bridge when it reaches the end of its life. There's some more speculative evidence for you...
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

If you could pull together 6 blocks in the SW corner of 670 and 71 I think you would have space for a very nice stadium.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

so is this all on the South side of 670 then, essentially the Northern edge of the crossroads which is all warehouses/industrial currently? (and some vacant lots/parking). I mean if you raze everything around there you could have a blank canvas to work from. But unless there is a deck that connects it to the North it would be cut off from "downtown" It's obvious that side of downtown is the spot just a matter of where there in and around the "East Village"
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

How close are we talking to the KC Star press building and any possibility of incorporating it into the stadium design?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

That site would perhaps work if the cap were gonna be down there anytime soon. I still think the jail site is the best site for all parties, including the fans. Easy access to P&L & streetcar. Still close enough to spur EV developments. It also encourages the cap to be planned out further.

My hot take continues to be we should weave the AT&T building into the new stadium as a part of it. That would be some cool architecture like Petco Park did with a similar building.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:20 am How close are we talking to the KC Star press building and any possibility of incorporating it into the stadium design?
I suggested this as it's about the only thing that makes sense to save that building. However some people pushed back hard because there are some non-historical and non-impressive buildings being used.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:06 pm That site would perhaps work if the cap were gonna be down there anytime soon. I still think the jail site is the best site for all parties, including the fans. Easy access to P&L & streetcar. Still close enough to spur EV developments. It also encourages the cap to be planned out further.

My hot take continues to be we should weave the AT&T building into the new stadium as a part of it. That would be some cool architecture like Petco Park did with a similar building.
I'd like to see the ATT building disappear.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:28 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:20 am How close are we talking to the KC Star press building and any possibility of incorporating it into the stadium design?
I suggested this as it's about the only thing that makes sense to save that building. However some people pushed back hard because there are some non-historical and non-impressive buildings being used.
It sure would be the most unique stadium ever. The 3rd base side concourse would be the KC Star press building (soaring, open, modern, plenty of space for offices). The 1st base side concourse would be new build but could greatly contrast the other side. Would be an architectural wonder. Of course, you'd have to close some roads (Oak) which would cause some problems.
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