New Chiefs Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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DColeKC
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

phuqueue wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:21 pm Swap whatever words you want, but you're still talking about spending a huge amount of public money. What does it mean to "host big events all the time"? The World Cup is a big event and the existing Arrowhead already landed it. The Super Bowl is a big event, but it won't come to KC unless the stadium has a roof (and would have already been awarded to the existing Arrowhead if it had a roof). The Olympics will never come to KC, and if they did, they would surely expect a new Olympic Stadium as part of the bid. Arrowhead already hosts miscellaneous other soccer and college football games. A roofed stadium might host some basketball stuff as well, but that's somewhere between one and a few dates in a given year, and probably not every year. Even new stadiums in much larger cities host only a handful of non-NFL events in a given year, and most of those events are not national or international draws like the World Cup, they are just concerts for especially big acts (Arrowhead has also hosted some of these, and I suspect that the reason it doesn't host more has more to do with KC's ability to turn out 75,000 people for a concert than with the quality of the facilities, though that is just my feeling, I'm not a concert promoter or anything).

A new stadium is likely to cost ~$1 billion or more as a starting point, before you even start throwing in nonessential bells and whistles. Whether that's an especially wise use of public money or not, it's going to happen, so we'll set that part of it aside. But when you start talking about adding hundreds of millions more to that amount, the question needs to become, is it worth those hundreds of millions of dollars to pull in two or three concerts and an extra college football game or two per year? Or might the city/county/metro be better served by spending that money somewhere else?
30% of the population will always say we shouldn't spend this money until (insert cause) is solved or fixed!

I'm opposed to a brand new arrowhead until some better reasons can be shown. I believe Arrowhead is in unique company and while not as old, it's one of 3 remaining historical stadiums. I can envision a SoFi style open-air, covered Arrowhead. The single biggest hurdle to do any massive renovation to Arrowhead opposed to building new is going to be suites. Arrowhead currently has 80 while the new SoFi has almost 300. This represents millions in revenue being left on the table.

It would take some crazy design work to add even 20 more suites, let alone doubling them. That could be the deal breaker on saving Arrowhead.

If they build new, it won't be about drawing more large events. That will be a nice side effect but it's going to be all about suites, seats and technology. Arrowhead typically has one large concert a year which nets them some great money. They don't do more because the expenses to host these shows are enormous. If they could schedule 2 very different acts back to back they could get in more than 1 per year. Would mean the field is not useable for a full month.

Arrowhead also hasn't hosted many college football games over the last several years. They do have a bunch of smaller events, especially private ones all over the facility on a regular basis.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by normalthings »

An AlkaliAxel-style stadium is more like $3-4 billion. I think most of the posters on here understand it would be a negative ROI project.


$3 billion to boost the tourism business and improve lives:

$500 million: CC upgrades and renovation
$500 million: 1,200 room CC hotel w/o onsite meeting space
$1 billion: KU Med or Downtown to TSC LRT line
$1 billion: Arrowhead renovation
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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DColeKC wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:40 pm
phuqueue wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:21 pm Swap whatever words you want, but you're still talking about spending a huge amount of public money. What does it mean to "host big events all the time"? The World Cup is a big event and the existing Arrowhead already landed it. The Super Bowl is a big event, but it won't come to KC unless the stadium has a roof (and would have already been awarded to the existing Arrowhead if it had a roof). The Olympics will never come to KC, and if they did, they would surely expect a new Olympic Stadium as part of the bid. Arrowhead already hosts miscellaneous other soccer and college football games. A roofed stadium might host some basketball stuff as well, but that's somewhere between one and a few dates in a given year, and probably not every year. Even new stadiums in much larger cities host only a handful of non-NFL events in a given year, and most of those events are not national or international draws like the World Cup, they are just concerts for especially big acts (Arrowhead has also hosted some of these, and I suspect that the reason it doesn't host more has more to do with KC's ability to turn out 75,000 people for a concert than with the quality of the facilities, though that is just my feeling, I'm not a concert promoter or anything).

A new stadium is likely to cost ~$1 billion or more as a starting point, before you even start throwing in nonessential bells and whistles. Whether that's an especially wise use of public money or not, it's going to happen, so we'll set that part of it aside. But when you start talking about adding hundreds of millions more to that amount, the question needs to become, is it worth those hundreds of millions of dollars to pull in two or three concerts and an extra college football game or two per year? Or might the city/county/metro be better served by spending that money somewhere else?
30% of the population will always say we shouldn't spend this money until (insert cause) is solved or fixed!

I'm opposed to a brand new arrowhead until some better reasons can be shown. I believe Arrowhead is in unique company and while not as old, it's one of 3 remaining historical stadiums. I can envision a SoFi style open-air, covered Arrowhead. The single biggest hurdle to do any massive renovation to Arrowhead opposed to building new is going to be suites. Arrowhead currently has 80 while the new SoFi has almost 300. This represents millions in revenue being left on the table.

It would take some crazy design work to add even 20 more suites, let alone doubling them. That could be the deal breaker on saving Arrowhead.

If they build new, it won't be about drawing more large events. That will be a nice side effect but it's going to be all about suites, seats and technology. Arrowhead typically has one large concert a year which nets them some great money. They don't do more because the expenses to host these shows are enormous. If they could schedule 2 very different acts back to back they could get in more than 1 per year. Would mean the field is not useable for a full month.

Arrowhead also hasn't hosted many college football games over the last several years. They do have a bunch of smaller events, especially private ones all over the facility on a regular basis.
If it's worth the expense to do one show a year, it would be worth it to do two, or seven. Stadium tours are less common than 20 years ago, we rarely sell out, we are a bit out of the way, and we have a grass field instead of turf, those more likely are the contributing factors.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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^ it’s not worth doing more than 1 if it requires the setup to be removed and reinstalled weeks later. You can fit 2 in one summer with perfect timing. Would be different if the field wasn’t real grass or could be removed like some other stadiums.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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Clark Hunt just confirmed that preference is to renovate arrowhead and try to get it to 2055 or beyond.

Correct choice.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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DColeKC wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:30 am Clark Hunt just confirmed that preference is to renovate arrowhead and try to get it to 2055 or beyond.

Correct choice.
Source?
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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normalthings wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:48 am
DColeKC wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:30 am Clark Hunt just confirmed that preference is to renovate arrowhead and try to get it to 2055 or beyond.

Correct choice.
Source?
Probably be in the media later today. This was said today at Training camp.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by normalthings »

Looks like he said they hope they can renovate and stay another 25 years but have not determined if that’s possible yet……
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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normalthings wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:08 pm Looks like he said they hope they can renovate and stay another 25 years but have not determined if that’s possible yet……
Yes, longer version -

“Yes, that would be our number one priority. We’re gonna evaluate all options obviously. We’ve gotta figure out what’s best for the franchise and what’s best for the fanbase, but it starts with evaluating Arrowhead and that’s where we are right now.”

“What I’ve learned through the process is it’s not a very simple answer when you’re trying to make a decision on whether a building can go another 25 or 30 years starting in 8 years from now.”

“We’re very hopeful that we will be able to renovate Arrowhead when the time comes. But we’re still probably a year plus away from being able to make that determination.”
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by moderne »

Chicago is mulling putting a roof over Soldier Field. But I think maybe in the last reno the structure supporting the seating bowl was replaced? If not it would be much older and weathered than Arrowhead.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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moderne wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:50 pm Chicago is mulling putting a roof over Soldier Field. But I think maybe in the last reno the structure supporting the seating bowl was replaced? If not it would be much older and weathered than Arrowhead.
Solider Field, old or new, share almost nothing in common with Arrowhead. Arrowhead was far, far ahead of its time and is all cast in place concrete. Its actual support structure can take another 100 years, easily, with proper maintenance.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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We should try and utilize the structure for as long as possible. The new normal is going to have to be using buildings for as long as possible.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by FangKC »

im2kull wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:09 pm
moderne wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:50 pm Chicago is mulling putting a roof over Soldier Field. But I think maybe in the last reno the structure supporting the seating bowl was replaced? If not it would be much older and weathered than Arrowhead.
Solider Field, old or new, share almost nothing in common with Arrowhead. Arrowhead was far, far ahead of its time and is all cast in place concrete. Its actual support structure can take another 100 years, easily, with proper maintenance.
Chicago proposes three alternatives to the Bears' planned Soldier Field exodus


https://archinect.com/news/article/1503 ... eld-exodus
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by alejandro46 »

Was recently at Soldier field for the first time during a concert.

To be honest it wasn’t bad compared to arrowhead. However it is definitely looking dated. The Arlington Heights proposal is questionable in my opinion without the team paying a lot of money into it.. AH has 75k people. The state is not going to chip in for it. The bears are also not a good team. Although Chicago has an uphill battle I think they’ll figure out a way to keep the bears.

The biggest problem was the lack of transit. It needs to be easier to get to without relying on an Uber or driving.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

phuqueue wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:21 pm Swap whatever words you want, but you're still talking about spending a huge amount of public money. What does it mean to "host big events all the time"? The World Cup is a big event and the existing Arrowhead already landed it. The Super Bowl is a big event, but it won't come to KC unless the stadium has a roof (and would have already been awarded to the existing Arrowhead if it had a roof). The Olympics will never come to KC, and if they did, they would surely expect a new Olympic Stadium as part of the bid. Arrowhead already hosts miscellaneous other soccer and college football games. A roofed stadium might host some basketball stuff as well, but that's somewhere between one and a few dates in a given year, and probably not every year. Even new stadiums in much larger cities host only a handful of non-NFL events in a given year, and most of those events are not national or international draws like the World Cup, they are just concerts for especially big acts (Arrowhead has also hosted some of these, and I suspect that the reason it doesn't host more has more to do with KC's ability to turn out 75,000 people for a concert than with the quality of the facilities, though that is just my feeling, I'm not a concert promoter or anything).

A new stadium is likely to cost ~$1 billion or more as a starting point, before you even start throwing in nonessential bells and whistles. Whether that's an especially wise use of public money or not, it's going to happen, so we'll set that part of it aside. But when you start talking about adding hundreds of millions more to that amount, the question needs to become, is it worth those hundreds of millions of dollars to pull in two or three concerts and an extra college football game or two per year? Or might the city/county/metro be better served by spending that money somewhere else?
I missed your reply to me from before. What I'm saying is that competition between KS & MO will yield the best stadium. This is simple economics. If Missouri had no pressure from anyone to steal the Chiefs, then they'd zero incentive to put in much effort for the stadium. If they competition from KS, they have to step up their game.

If we can yield a better stadium of that, we stand to host Super Bowl, Final Four, College football playoffs, Big 12 championships, better mega-concerts year round, and probably alot more that I'm not even thinking of.

Of course spend as little as you can get away with. But by all means- get the best quality stadium as well. And obv competiton is the best way to make that happen.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

normalthings wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:11 pm An AlkaliAxel-style stadium is more like $3-4 billion. I think most of the posters on here understand it would be a negative ROI project.
I never said $3-4 bil or to build a new stadium, or with no ROI. Your words, not mine. What I am saying is that we shouldn't settle and build a cheap piece of crap like Missouri probably would if they didn't have any pressure from KS. I just want higher standards.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by phuqueue »

KC doesn't need a "better" stadium to host a Super Bowl, Final Four, etc, it needs a domed stadium. If taxpayers had funded the rolling roof ~15 years ago, Arrowhead would have already hosted a Super Bowl. Wishing for KS to "drive up the cost" of a new stadium, no matter how you try to spin or recast that statement now, still ultimately just means you want taxpayers to unnecessarily pay more than they'd otherwise need to for a stadium that might pull a few extra dates (in addition to the staggering ten or so dates a year that it will already be used) each year (and frankly, it probably still won't). KCMO has plenty of other needs that would be better served by that money than winning a bidding war with KS to keep them from poaching from the city yet again.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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FangKC wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:02 pm We should try and utilize the structure for as long as possible. The new normal is going to have to be using buildings for as long as possible.
Everything old is new again.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

phuqueue wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:23 am KC doesn't need a "better" stadium to host a Super Bowl, Final Four, etc, it needs a domed stadium. If taxpayers had funded the rolling roof ~15 years ago, Arrowhead would have already hosted a Super Bowl.
Wow, has it been 15 years?! I remember that vote and the very lively discussion on it on this board back then. There was a strong yes and no contingency. I was probably the lone person pushing a no vote for the stadium construction and a yes vote for the rolling roof. Sounds illogical but, I figured, if the stadium did pass I at least wanted to get a Super Bowl out of it. Unfortunately, no one apparently listened to me because it played out exactly the opposite.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by mean »

I was then, and remain, a hard pass on publicly funding sports facilities. It will happen anyway, but it's literally the masses willfully voting a massive "F you" to themselves.
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