3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

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Chris Stritzel
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by Chris Stritzel »

normalthings wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:56 pm Of those, only 4711 Belleview/Dylan was totally dead. Ashland just got delayed and changed hands. 3rd and Grand never died. Like the Lux Riverfront project, it just had to go through some side process before it could remerge. I believe that the same is happening to Mac's deal at Main and Armour.
Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:56 pm Of those, only 4711 Belleview/Dylan was totally dead. Ashland just got delayed and changed hands. 3rd and Grand never died. Like the Lux Riverfront project, it just had to go through some side process before it could remerge. I believe that the same is happening to Mac's deal at Main and Armour.
Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
Yes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.
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normalthings
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by normalthings »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 am
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm

Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
Yes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.
A momentum has stalled….. the number of projects has slowed quit a bit. Other cities have seen a lot of proposal, we haven’t really seen all that many tbh
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by earthling »

^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.

May Metro Permits
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https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by CrossroadsUrbanApts »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 am
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm

Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
Yes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.
It's hard for me to see any new projects going through PIEA that would be subject to the affordability rules (i.e., not grandfathered into the old rules). Excepting those projects that are explicitly low-income (tax credit projects, etc.). Until then, you'll see the Port and RideKC seeing all new development requests. Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by GRID »

CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:32 am
AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 am
Chris Stritzel wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pm

I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
Yes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.
It's hard for me to see any new projects going through PIEA that would be subject to the affordability rules (i.e., not grandfathered into the old rules). Excepting those projects that are explicitly low-income (tax credit projects, etc.). Until then, you'll see the Port and RideKC seeing all new development requests. Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.
This is how I see it looking at things from the outside. Developers are going to have to jump through some major hoops and probably still have to go through the Port Authority etc. Major projects under this new affordable housing rule and with an anti development city council will be nearly impossible to get done. Especially in a city like KC where rents are still low and costs to build are rising.

I wish the city council there could understand that even with the tax breaks, most urban development makes financial sense.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by daGOAT »

CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:32 am Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.
Kevin O'Neil's "streetcar is an incentive" is the most laughable propaganda I have heard among the current council members by far lol.

Thank God the election is coming up! We just gotta make sure the right changes are made.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by daGOAT »

earthling wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 am ^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.

May Metro Permits
Image
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
KC seriously lagging in 5 plus units.... not a good look but could easily change.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by earthling »

^For the month, not for the year to date. It's somewhat common to have a low month some months.

History of permits (click on 5+ tab)...
https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/buil ... y%2C_MO-KS

KCMO might consider matching Minneapolis incentives programs. They also have an affordable requirement but not as strict as KC's IIRC and they are significantly attracting development even though rents are not rising as much.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

earthling wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:06 pm Is this still latest rendering?
Image
This old rendering was the only one that was presented to the PIEA. I'm not sure if that is just a different side of the building than the above rendering, or a separate design. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up with considerable changes from either of these.

Image
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normalthings
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD

Post by normalthings »

daGOAT wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:02 pm
earthling wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 am ^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.

May Metro Permits
Image
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
KC seriously lagging in 5 plus units.... not a good look but could easily change.
Permits and proposals are also not the same thing
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