Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Anthony_Hugo98]

As you can imagine, the reaction by the general populace (even on Twitter) has been overwhelmingly negative to this article and the idea of a vote. Royals winning games would REALLY help their cause here

My hot take is that winning would make it harder to move. Because when they’re losing people don’t give as much of a shit what they do with the Royals. If they’re winning people care more and get more sentimental with what they’re doing with the Royals.

That’s not how the public is perceiving it though is the issue, especially attached to a vote

[AlkaliAxel]

As you can imagine, the reaction by the general populace (even on Twitter) has been overwhelmingly negative to this article and the idea of a vote. Royals winning games would REALLY help their cause here

My hot take is that winning would make it harder to move. Because when they’re losing people don’t give as much of a shit what they do with the Royals. If they’re winning people care more and get more sentimental with what they’re doing with the Royals.

That’s not how the public is perceiving it though is the issue, especially attached to a vote

Most people don't care about the Royals right now because they suck. Forget twitter, that's just the vocal minority. It's a good time to move while people are ambivalent to them. The reason people are so much more concerned about the Chiefs moving is because they're really good. People aren't paying attention to the Royals right now so it's a great time to bolt.

Regardless, they're not gonna be winning anytime soon so adjust accordingly

[AlkaliAxel]

So we're going to get a downtown stadium without the skyline as the backdrop? Yeah no thanks

Could be some new towers behind the stadium that look better anyway.

[phuqueue]

It's naive to think that "sentimentality" is the main force animating opposition to a new stadium or that opposition will be meaningfully diminished because "sentimental" people aren't paying attention to the day-to-day game results. You aren't going to sneak a generational project past people just because the team isn't playing well right now. If you think a lot of people aren't paying attention because the team is so bad (probably true), ask yourself how those people will be convinced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer funds on a team they can't even be bothered to watch. Regardless of whether they are closely following the 2022 Royals, you are not going to catch them sleeping on a costly proposal for a new stadium.

[AlkaliAxel]

It's naive to think that "sentimentality" is the main force animating opposition to a new stadium or that opposition will be meaningfully diminished because "sentimental" people aren't paying attention to the day-to-day game results. You aren't going to sneak a generational project past people just because the team isn't playing well right now. If you think a lot of people aren't paying attention because the team is so bad (probably true), ask yourself how those people will be convinced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer funds on a team they can't even be bothered to watch. Regardless of whether they are closely following the 2022 Royals, you are not going to catch them sleeping on a costly proposal for a new stadium.

Because if they’re winning then you’ll just get “well the stadium is selling out, we’re winning…why change anything? This is working great”

People will want change more when things aren’t going well. Or atleast they’ll be more open to it. And honestly, yeah I don’t think people are as attached to staying at Kauffman when nobody’s even going to it the past few years. It’s harder to let go of something you’re using a lot.

[Cratedigger]

I think there’s a general distrust of the ownership of the Royals since Ewing Kauffman. Which… fair.

I think it’s reasonable for people to believe that if Royals are better managed, that management will be better stewards of the public’s interests

[normalthings]

It's naive to think that "sentimentality" is the main force animating opposition to a new stadium or that opposition will be meaningfully diminished because "sentimental" people aren't paying attention to the day-to-day game results. You aren't going to sneak a generational project past people just because the team isn't playing well right now. If you think a lot of people aren't paying attention because the team is so bad (probably true), ask yourself how those people will be convinced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer funds on a team they can't even be bothered to watch. Regardless of whether they are closely following the 2022 Royals, you are not going to catch them sleeping on a costly proposal for a new stadium.

Because if they’re winning then you’ll just get “well the stadium is selling out, we’re winning…why change anything? This is working great”

People will want change more when things aren’t going well. Or atleast they’ll be more open to it. And honestly, yeah I don’t think people are as attached to staying at Kauffman when nobody’s even going to it the past few years. It’s harder to let go of something you’re using a lot.

Cardinals went to the National League Championship Series multiple years in a row around when they announced their current stadium. Attendance was consistently over 3 million per year during that time period.

[normalthings]

Went to 2 Cardinals games this weekend. Cardinal's stadium is better than Kauffman in pretty much every metric I have. Sat the upper deck for 1 and near the Cardinals dug out for the other.

Takeaways:

1. Closer to the game

Upper decks felt "on top of the game" and provided a compelling viewing angle. I could be wrong but I think the Upper Decks at Cards gets closer to the field than at Kauffman. Bathroom/Concession concourses allowed for viewing of the game. Not as good as Sporting KC but a lot better than the 2 stadiums at TSC.


2. More concessions, worse food

The lower levels have bathrooms and concessions in "lounges" below the seats. Concessions and bathrooms are easier to get to and more plentiful at Cards than at Kauffman as you would expect with any new stadium. Kauffman probably wins when it comes to food quality and value.

3. MetroLink not overwhelmed

Attendance was 40,000+. I've seen just as many if not more people at the Union Station or RM Streetcar stops as there were at the Cardinals' Metrolink station. If KC Streetcar ups frequencies during games and/or buys longer vehicles there should really be no problem. St. Louis has fewer freeways leading into downtown but did not seem to have too bad traffic. This will be even less of a problem if we can get people to stick round longer after the game at a neighoring entertainment district

[beautyfromashes]

Where is kcdcchef when there is a discussion about abandoning TSC and moving DT? He was always good for a few rounds.

[AlkaliAxel]

KC streetcar needs to increase frequency in general anyway.

[daGOAT]

Moving the Royals to 18th and Vine is the lesser option to East Village for a list of reasons.

[normalthings]

Moving the Royals to 18th and Vine is the lesser option to East Village for a list of reasons.

Nope

[DColeKC]

I'm all-in on the East Village location and all-out on any other location. I just can't get excited about any other location as East Village makes so much sense and feels connected to downtowns entertainment hub.

[Karambit25]

There's not a single positive reason, not one, to move to 18th & Vine.
Not one. You will not get a dime of investment or synergy with that location.
Might as well stay at TSC.

The list of negatives @18th/Vine is a mile long, miles and miles and miles.
18th and Vine is a loser. It will always be a loser.
Because the people that run it are losers and will always be ran by losers.
It's a token. It will always be a token.


The East Village is infinitely the answer and it sickens me that people that follow development here can't see the opportunity after 6 MFing DECADES of empty to finally put something substantial there. This is a baseball NEIGHBORHOOD begging to happen to a game that is waning with younger people. In 10-15 years the changing demographics and slow pace of baseball will make soccer the more popular and more followed sport. The new Royals stadium has got to be positioned and built and for that change.

[AlkaliAxel]

There's not a single positive reason, not one, to move to 18th & Vine.
Not one. You will not get a dime of investment or synergy with that location.
Might as well stay at TSC.

The list of negatives @18th/Vine is a mile long, miles and miles and miles.
18th and Vine is a loser. It will always be a loser.
Because the people that run it are losers and will always be ran by losers.
It's a token. It will always be a token.


The East Village is infinitely the answer and it sickens me that people that follow development here can't see the opportunity after 6 MFing DECADES of empty to finally put something substantial there. This is a baseball NEIGHBORHOOD begging to happen to a game that is waning with younger people. In 10-15 years the changing demographics and slow pace of baseball will make soccer the more popular and more followed sport. The new Royals stadium has got to be positioned and built and for that change.

Concur. Mind boggling to me that after 2 decades of serious investing in downtown, we'd decide to put the most valuable asset outside that investment area, instead of creating a mass of synergy.

[beautyfromashes]

I'm all-in on the East Village location and all-out on any other location. I just can't get excited about any other location as East Village makes so much sense and feels connected to downtowns entertainment hub.

Hard no for me too. Sorry normalthings, it's not going to fly. If council and city leaders push this it's going to be an absolute disaster.

[normalthings]

If council and city leaders push this it's going to be an absolute disaster.

they have been for a long time. now its public (see KC Star).

The list of negatives @18th/Vine is a mile long, miles and miles and miles.
18th and Vine is a loser. It will always be a loser.
Because the people that run it are losers and will always be ran by losers.
It's a token. It will always be a token.


The East Village is infinitely the answer and it sickens me that people that follow development here can't see the opportunity after 6 MFing DECADES of empty to finally put something substantial there. This is a baseball NEIGHBORHOOD begging to happen to a game that is waning with younger people. In 10-15 years the changing demographics and slow pace of baseball will make soccer the more popular and more followed sport. The new Royals stadium has got to be positioned and built and for that change.

So you say both are historic losers but the one with no development momentum is a winner whereas the other (with baseball history and momentum) has no hope? If East Village is such a great place for development, why put a "dying" sport there. Shouldn't we just wait to put soccer there as you say? 10 more years is not that much longer if we have already waited 60 years

18Vine has space for development all around the stadium vs. limited at EV which would require building across the highway as the article mentions. That didn't happen in STL and wont happen in KC.

I'm all-in on the East Village location and all-out on any other location. I just can't get excited about any other location as East Village makes so much sense and feels connected to downtowns entertainment hub.

5/6 blocks from EV to Power & Light vs 1/2 Blocks from KCATA to 18Vine. Not exactly convenient to P&L but at least it's doable.
My issue with the walk is its pretty much always going to be through a government deadzone.

18Vine is a longer walk to the convention district but easier to put a streetcar line to. EV is a bit hard to put a spur Streetcar to but 18th Vine looks a lot more doable but that's just my opinion.

[normalthings]

There are 2 ways to pay for this stadium: redevelopment district and/or stadium tax. Both options favor 18th Vine.

• A redevelopment district works best at 18th Vine where there is more space, the government already owns a lot of it, and land prices are low.

• Politicians and community groups support 18th Vine the most of any stadium location

[FlippantCitizen]

18th and Vine has a lot of potential. I would not at all be opposed to it. In some ways I might actually prefer it... but East Village seems like the team ownership's first choice and I understand the reasons why. Either choice could be done well.

[KCPowercat]

Where are you getting ready village is their first choice? Everything I've gathered is they are focused on on 18th and Vine space