KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[Anthony_Hugo98]

It’s worth mentioning that in The vanguard days they had flights to the likes of Salina, Wichita, Branson and whatnot. Some of those routes won’t come back regardless of the situation.

[earthling]

KCI has lacked a lot of mid-tier cities over last decade like all 3 Ohio cities, Pittsburgh, Indy and most under 2M. Portland is seasonal at best and many of the 30 top markets have had low frequency (after Vanguard/Midwest Air and before pandemic). The new terminal will ideally draw more flights (if we can get out of pandemic lull) but hopefully SouthWest doesn't dominate too much as fares are much higher than avg at dominated airports.

Pursuing a subsidized TATL wouldn't necessarily be a mistake but domestic service hasn't been where it should be. A home based airline would more likely keep better service maintained than SWA able to easily shift flights to other mini hubs as they see fit.

[WoodDraw]

I'm not sure of the argument here? $5 million won't get you a new airline. Spirit, frontier, and JetBlue are all looking at consolidating. None of them were telling KC to expand regional flights and looking to invest any money.

Regional flights are shrinking, not growing.

[earthling]

Not an argument and not talking about dollar values. Pointing out that broadening domestic flights/frequency would probably be better for KC economy than one TATL flight. And did say a TATL flight wouldn't be a mistake but rather that domestic service has been poor out of KCI even before pandemic and likely more economic return if pursued as a higher priority. Of course could pursue both over time.

[WoodDraw]

Not an argument and not talking about dollar values. Pointing out that broadening domestic flights/frequency would probably be better for KC economy than one TATL flight. And did say a TATL flight wouldn't be a mistake but rather that domestic service has been poor out of KCI even before pandemic and likely more economic return if pursued as a higher priority. Of course could pursue both over time.

Didn't mean to be rude. I was honestly just asking for more about what you were thinking

There are people here that know more about aviation than me, but it seems like the airlines want out even from the government subsidized domestic flights.

There's obviously a lot of room for improvement, and one that should be bistate with companies on the Kansas size willing to kick in. One hopes that with the new airport our aviation, business, and tourism leaders can all look at what to do to upgrade our offerings now that we have a proper airport.

[earthling]

Yeah hopefully the new terminal will improve domestic service itself but KC might need to get more aggressive to even maintain the not so great domestic service it has.

[GRID]

Even Baltimore/Maryland subsidizes its BWI BA flight to London for like 5-6 million a year or more. I'm not sure why they have to other than the flight would likely go to Dulles instead. BA has a daily flight from both Dulles and BWI, but Dulles obviously has way more international flights.

[WoodDraw]

Even Baltimore/Maryland subsidizes its BWI BA flight to London for like 5-6 million a year or more. I'm not sure why they have to other than the flight would likely go to Dulles instead. BA has a daily flight from both Dulles and BWI, but Dulles obviously has way more international flights.

Baltimore is just a weird ass city with DC there, and the nw corridor. They have to/want to protect their position as a big city and convention/destination city. But they're surrounded by more desirable cities.

Tbh even when I'm in Maryland, I'm normally in the dc suburbs. But it's a big enough city well located enough to grab flights. But not good enough to not need money.

[GRID]

But BWI's location makes it another DC airport too. The airport is easily accessible from both DC and Baltimore and the MD suburbs between them. So it has a ton of domestic flights, including being one of Southwest's major hubs. So I don't get why they wouldn't get more international flights other than Dulles just being sort of the International airport of the region. But that airport is clear out in the NOVA suburbs.

[trexel94]

In actual air service news, the following upgrades will take effect

- AA will add an A319 flight to DCA
- UA will intro the 738MAX during spring/summer to EWR before switching to all mainline for late summer through early winter on 3x daily 737-700.
- UA will restart SFO this September with a daily A319.

[dev49]

The airport should be able to improve domestic service AND get a flight to Europe. It shouldn’t be an either or situation.

[AlkaliAxel]

I got back at MCI late last night, and I heard from somewhere that Delta Is gonna try to make the new KCI some sort of a hub

[hartliss]

I got back at MCI late last night, and I heard from somewhere that Delta Is gonna try to make the new KCI some sort of a hub

Hmm...quite the conversation you overheard . I do think DL pumping their own money into a Sky Club indicates a positivity towards the KC market and frequent flyer base.

[hartliss]

Serious question here.

Does it really matter? I mean when a city only has one flight to a European city like Frankfurt or London, what are the chances that most people's destination is that city?

If you are going to Amsterdam or Madrid or Paris, you are going to have to make a connection, it will just be in Europe rather than somewhere in the USA.

I guess the major advantage is you have more destinations from a hub in Europe?

My point is that if you are flying form KC or Indy or StL to some major European city you are likely going to have to make a connection regardless.

Also, I fly international often and we will often drive or take a train to JFK or Newark rather than flying out of Dulles or BWI because it's just so much cheaper and NYC has way more flights and destinations than DC airports. Even BWI only has one BA flight to London, which is nice and we have used, but our destination was London.

Maybe there is a reason a city would subsidize a flight if it has economic ties to some specific city in Europe.

I think there is a connivence component but truth be told, a lot of it is "Hey, we are a big time city - we have a flight to X destination in Europe" no different than having a professional sports team I suppose. Just my two cents..

[herrfrank]

AA had a full-service catering kitchen at MCI before COVID. They served hot meals in domestic F on the MIA, PHX, LAX, LGA and PHL flights. DCA and CLT were double-catered cold IIRC. DFW and ORD no meals.

I think they also provided the meals for Alaska for SEA service.

[normalthings]

Grant could be used by STL.
City is negotiating with an airline for new international service
Europe or South America

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 7207.html

[trexel94]

Grant could be used by STL.
City is negotiating with an airline for new international service
Europe or South America

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 7207.html

Sounds like talks are in advancing stages with the mystery airline but OMG STL shouldn't see a dime of this and needs to keep its pizza greased paws off. They have plenty of resources, we don't. This is a one-time deal and we ought to make the most of it.

[dev49]

^the state should have done this statewide a long time ago and it should be something that keeps going and is not a one time deal.

If a deal makes sense for us, STL, Springfield, Columbia, etc there should be state backing for it. They spend plenty more money on dumb things that supporting an robust airport incentive program should be easy. If Indiana can put 20 mil in their pot there is no reason Missouri can’t.

[brewcrew1000]

I got back at MCI late last night, and I heard from somewhere that Delta Is gonna try to make the new KCI some sort of a hub

I could see a focus city to places like MSY, MKE, SAT, IAH, IND, ORD, PHX but a hub makes no sense with MSP and DTW being being so close

[trexel94]

I got back at MCI late last night, and I heard from somewhere that Delta Is gonna try to make the new KCI some sort of a hub

I could see a focus city to places like MSY, MKE, SAT, IAH, IND, ORD, PHX but a hub makes no sense with MSP and DTW being being so close

I was thinking something along the lines of what RDU has; a few more p2p key domestic stations, a long haul to either AMS/CDG and throw in a leisure route or two. Should be enough O/D and catchment traffic to support it without impacting nearby hubs.