Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Here's the fundamental problem for suburban LRT:
You have to drive your car to park at the rail station. That's 10 mins. Then you sit on it as it stops every 2 mins at about 50 stops until finally an hour later you end up in downtown. Then you have to walk or take a streetcar to your exact destination within the downtown. That's another 10-15 mins. That's well over an hour in total.
Or you could just get in the car and be there in 20 mins.
All this^^^ is why it's failing in Denver. It'll be even worse in KC. No suburbanite will ever do all that here or anywhere.
You have to drive your car to park at the rail station. That's 10 mins. Then you sit on it as it stops every 2 mins at about 50 stops until finally an hour later you end up in downtown. Then you have to walk or take a streetcar to your exact destination within the downtown. That's another 10-15 mins. That's well over an hour in total.
Or you could just get in the car and be there in 20 mins.
All this^^^ is why it's failing in Denver. It'll be even worse in KC. No suburbanite will ever do all that here or anywhere.
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
It may make sense though for people living within walking distance to the line though, so having a dense half mile corridor around the train would help that’s walkable. Also getting rid of free parking in the city and suddenly the cost of driving becomes more identifiable.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:33 am Here's the fundamental problem for suburban LRT:
You have to drive your car to park at the rail station. That's 10 mins. Then you sit on it as it stops every 2 mins at about 50 stops until finally an hour later you end up in downtown. Then you have to walk or take a streetcar to your exact destination within the downtown. That's another 10-15 mins. That's well over an hour in total.
Or you could just get in the car and be there in 20 mins.
All this^^^ is why it's failing in Denver. It'll be even worse in KC. No suburbanite will ever do all that here or anywhere.
I do think it should be urban first though
- FlippantCitizen
- Western Auto Lofts
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Any value to going further north than NKC will lay in the ability to develop or redevelop along North Oak in a dense manner. If we can get TOD right up along the line then it’s worth it. Whatever the next project after NKC is in the northland, it should be a modest extension and not all the way to the airport or something.Riverite wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:55 amIt may make sense though for people living within walking distance to the line though, so having a dense half mile corridor around the train would help that’s walkable. Also getting rid of free parking in the city and suddenly the cost of driving becomes more identifiable.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:33 am Here's the fundamental problem for suburban LRT:
You have to drive your car to park at the rail station. That's 10 mins. Then you sit on it as it stops every 2 mins at about 50 stops until finally an hour later you end up in downtown. Then you have to walk or take a streetcar to your exact destination within the downtown. That's another 10-15 mins. That's well over an hour in total.
Or you could just get in the car and be there in 20 mins.
All this^^^ is why it's failing in Denver. It'll be even worse in KC. No suburbanite will ever do all that here or anywhere.
I do think it should be urban first though
- DaveKCMO
- Ambassador
- Posts: 20064
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: Crossroads
- Contact:
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- GRID
- City Hall
- Posts: 17223
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
This makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- DaveKCMO
- Ambassador
- Posts: 20064
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: Crossroads
- Contact:
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Yes, give KC the opportunity to pass up an opportunity and we'll take it!GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 amThis makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34064
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
I think you just create our next mottoDaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:32 amYes, give KC the opportunity to pass up an opportunity and we'll take it!GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 amThis makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
I think the question is: Do we have the ability or will to create the dense development that you talk about on our own in anticipation of a future line to the airport or do you build the line to spur the dense development that you desire?FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:12 am Any value to going further north than NKC will lay in the ability to develop or redevelop along North Oak in a dense manner. If we can get TOD right up along the line then it’s worth it. Whatever the next project after NKC is in the northland, it should be a modest extension and not all the way to the airport or something.
- FlippantCitizen
- Western Auto Lofts
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
I would think there would have to be some type of overlay to get it going in the right direction. Not sure the market is going to find its own way to what we need in that area.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:03 amI think the question is: Do we have the ability or will to create the dense development that you talk about on our own in anticipation of a future line to the airport or do you build the line to spur the dense development that you desire?FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:12 am Any value to going further north than NKC will lay in the ability to develop or redevelop along North Oak in a dense manner. If we can get TOD right up along the line then it’s worth it. Whatever the next project after NKC is in the northland, it should be a modest extension and not all the way to the airport or something.
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
I'd agree with that at a minimum. The city needs to put some concrete money on the table to make others start doing the same, some strong signal on what the future of the line in the Northland will be.FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:45 amI would think there would have to be some type of overlay to get it going in the right direction. Not sure the market is going to find its own way to what we need in that area.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:03 amI think the question is: Do we have the ability or will to create the dense development that you talk about on our own in anticipation of a future line to the airport or do you build the line to spur the dense development that you desire?FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:12 am Any value to going further north than NKC will lay in the ability to develop or redevelop along North Oak in a dense manner. If we can get TOD right up along the line then it’s worth it. Whatever the next project after NKC is in the northland, it should be a modest extension and not all the way to the airport or something.
- Karambit25
- Pad site
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:10 am
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Forgive me if this is an obvious question. Since Burlington and Swift are only 3 blocks apart, why not go North on Burlington and loop south on Swift? That would basically cover the spine of NKC and serve both major streets.
Any future expansion/extension north could just go on from Burlington.
Any future expansion/extension north could just go on from Burlington.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Loop's are not great transitKarambit25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:11 pm Forgive me if this is an obvious question. Since Burlington and Swift are only 3 blocks apart, why not go North on Burlington and loop south on Swift? That would basically cover the spine of NKC and serve both major streets.
Any future expansion/extension north could just go on from Burlington.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18302
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Dave, if you ever run for City Council, this should be your slogan.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:32 amYes, give KC the opportunity to pass up an opportunity and we'll take it!GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 amThis makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- DaveKCMO
- Ambassador
- Posts: 20064
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: Crossroads
- Contact:
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Ha! You should know that I have completely ruled that out. Who wants to be part of such a shit show?
- alejandro46
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1358
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
- Location: King in the North(Land)
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Agreed. Is all I"m saying is let's start developing and planning based on the idea of transit first, North Oak Max/Streetcar, whatever. So we can overlay appropriate density and road improvements to meet that hopeful improvements. For example, we shouldn't invest millions in roundabouts or land re-surfacing if we are going to add streetcar there and we can start planning appropriate utility work, etc. way in advance. We've found out via the Main Extension that a even a future streetcar line increases property value and drives development in anticipation of rail. When we get around to extending the streetcar north, it would be in smaller chunks, Vivion, then Gladstone, etc. No need to do it all at once but once you get started, I think the density will follow.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:58 pmI'd agree with that at a minimum. The city needs to put some concrete money on the table to make others start doing the same, some strong signal on what the future of the line in the Northland will be.FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:45 amI would think there would have to be some type of overlay to get it going in the right direction. Not sure the market is going to find its own way to what we need in that area.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:03 am
I think the question is: Do we have the ability or will to create the dense development that you talk about on our own in anticipation of a future line to the airport or do you build the line to spur the dense development that you desire?
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Counterpoint: if we passed it & it doesn't do well, then we never get the streetcar or any type of expansions. And then we're screwed.GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 amThis makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Counter Point: it will take us a minimum 20 years to build an equivalent system. probably moreAlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:55 pmCounterpoint: if we passed it & it doesn't do well, then we never get the streetcar or any type of expansions. And then we're screwed.GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 amThis makes me so sad. KC would likely be expanding this by now.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am The last proper LRT proposal (2008) went to North Oak & Vivion.
https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/light_rail
- FlippantCitizen
- Western Auto Lofts
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Regarding some of this previous talk about drive vs train time. You should all be praying for center running, dedicated lane, and high degree of signal priority for northland expansion or it will be next to pointless.
- Anthony_Hugo98
- Valencia Place
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
- Location: Overland Park, KS
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
I’m losing brain cells reading some of the comments on the interactive map the KCStreetcar has for north rail.
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City
Hmm gonna pass on that one.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:24 am I’m losing brain cells reading some of the comments on the interactive map the KCStreetcar has for north rail.