KC Inferiority Complex?

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daGOAT
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KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by daGOAT »

Was over on UrbanSTL and there was talk of a KC inferiority complex when it came to St. Louis. I'm pretty young so maybe I'm wrong but I never heard people bagging on STL growing up. Quite to the contrary I've took alot of shit in Chicago whenever the Cardinals would come to play the Cubs, I have a lot of KC pride tattooed on my forearm lol. I personally love KC and there's a lot I enjoy in St. Louis but I guess since I've been a kid KC has come up so far and any old "little brother" complex seemed far away in a past I can't remember. Let me know your thoughts, does or did KC have an inferioriy complex with other cities at one time?
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by AllThingsKC »

It's generally petty crap from both cities, usually driven by sports. It's same crap when anything (sports, economy, politics, etc) comes down to Kansas vs. Missouri.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by AlkaliAxel »

daGOAT wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:00 pm Was over on UrbanSTL and there was talk of a KC inferiority complex when it came to St. Louis. I'm pretty young so maybe I'm wrong but I never heard people bagging on STL growing up. Quite to the contrary I've took alot of shit in Chicago whenever the Cardinals would come to play the Cubs, I have a lot of KC pride tattooed on my forearm lol. I personally love KC and there's a lot I enjoy in St. Louis but I guess since I've been a kid KC has come up so far and any old "little brother" complex seemed far away in a past I can't remember. Let me know your thoughts, does or did KC have an inferioriy complex with other cities at one time?
That was a thing like 15+ years ago atleast. Haven’t heard much about STL since then from KC.

The fact they’re bringing it up now shows the ‘complex’ is flipping
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by daGOAT »

That's what I was thinking too. I feel like Kansas Citians are comfortable with the city's identity, if not totally ecstatic about it lol.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by Chris Stritzel »

The UrbanSTL people were pissed because a user who normally posts about KC stuff made a comment about how it's clear why development goes slow in St. Louis. That was in response to the Board of Adjustment pushing the Albion West End project approval back to the preservation board because of setback and facade rules that interfere with historic district standards. Someone (a transplant from KC) made a comment calling that user a troll (when that user is a friend of mine) and other comments about the KC vs STL stuff.

I swear, that forum is making my brain melt and shifting my opinions on St. Louis drastically. It's one of the reasons why I'm taking the legacy dollars and will invest in KC over St. Louis. Why should I invest in a city where people are constantly at odds with each other and willing to trash people (especially investors) who want to see the city better off?

I've found there's a victim mentality among St. Louisans. Honestly. They'll shit on themselves about literally anything then complain when someone from another city dares to mention a problem they've complained about before. It's unfortunate too. Wish they'd just get over it and realize that each city is different in it's own way and to complain about one shows a hint of jealously.

Some users of KCRag think things get out of hand here. Please. It's much more civilized here.

My observations on Kansas City in general is that there seems to be a great deal of civic pride and more adoption of the "Heart KC" things around town. I've also found that people in KC tend to be much nicer than people in St. Louis, the city tends to be cleaner, and suburbs feel denser (just my observation).
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by daGOAT »

Yeah, I find it way too easy to get into a disagreement on UrbanSTL. The city is great I mean you got amazing parks, universities, and one of the oldest urban cores in the country. I would say Lafayette Square is one of my favorite places in the entire nation as a matter of fact. At the end of the day I guess I just like the laidback KC vibe more and now that it's finally getting it together with transit and urban development I'm becoming bullish on the city, and that's coming from a kid that couldn't wait to move 5 years ago. The two cities have alot of similarities I just think St. Louis has more established 19th century density while KC is more modern and grew around the streetcar in the early 20th century. Missouri is lucky to have both imo even if it's lawmakers don't always seem to think so.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by Chris Stritzel »

"At the end of the day I guess I just like the laidback KC vibe more and now that it's finally getting it together with transit and urban development I'm becoming bullish on the city"

Bingo. Exactly the case. We might not like some of the rules put in place for incentivized developments in KC, but they're clearly defined rules that make it easier to plan. There are a few hoops to jump through, but it's all very clear. Slow and steady ultimately wins the race.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by GRID »

For the longest time, StL people tried to "ignore" KC and act like KC didn't exist. They just refused to accept the fact that KC is a peer to StL. All why trying to act like a peer to Chicago while getting totally blown off by Chicago.

With KC closing the gap on StL in many ways, it's harder to ignore KC as much.

I have always liked StL and have followed development there and have spent a ton of time there. I recall always being in the minority as a Kansas Citian that actually liked StL. I do think at one time KC had an inferiority complex. Back when KC's downtown was hitting rock bottom, at least StL had downtown stadiums and the arch and union station, forest park, a great zoo and science center etc. They were building metro link light rail and had a much busier airport.

Plus all their prominent suburbs are in MO vs being in another state so universities across Missouri were always dominated by often snooty StL County kids. StL just felt superior to KC and StL people knew it. Now that's just not the case. The cities are very much peers and some people in StL can't handle that.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by daGOAT »

Agreed. As long as KC can keep parking requirements to a minimum and are prepared to pass abatements in exchange for affordable housing it’s possible to make the numbers work. The 20% is a troublesome percentage but I believe it doesn’t apply to adaptive reuse or a certain unit count. Personally I wanna build smaller projects (stacked 2-4plex, live-work, or even smaller 6-12 unit multi family).
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by Riverite »

Couldn’t find the post on UrbanStl mustve been removed.

There was definitely an inferiority complex in KC at one point. Once we started hitting our stride, there were definitely some jabs thrown, even some comments here if you want to go rummaging through the trash section. Honestly though that was probably 8-10 years ago, most people seem relatively amiable towards St. Louis at this point. I know that there are a few people on that site though that doesn’t want to see KC get too uppity and will comment if too much is posted, whereas I don’t think people care all that much.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by AlkaliAxel »

StL I think has been hurting for a while now, but where it really started to become noticeable to StL & everyone was when the Rams left in 2016. Suddenly then it started to outwardly look really bad- made fun of for horrific crime, stagnant downtown & their NFL team leaving the town. Ever since that I think KC officially stopped feeling any sorts of inferiority.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by GRID »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:22 am StL I think has been hurting for a while now, but where it really started to become noticeable to StL & everyone was when the Rams left in 2016. Suddenly then it started to outwardly look really bad- made fun of for horrific crime, stagnant downtown & their NFL team leaving the town. Ever since that I think KC officially stopped feeling any sorts of inferiority.
Despite STL problems, they recently seem to be doing nearly as much urban residential development in the Downtown to Center West End corridor as KC is doing in the Downtown to Plaza corridor. And StL has Clayton too. And they are getting some high end stuff that KC is not really getting.

I don't know what the actual numbers are, but it really does seem like StL has caught up to KC in the past few years or at least closed the gap quite a bit.

They just have much bigger problems in North City etc than KC has and I hear they are really having trouble now with MetroLink no longer being considered safe to use by most people.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by AlkaliAxel »

daGOAT wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:09 pm I guess I just like the laidback KC vibe more and now that it's finally getting it together with transit and urban development
As Chris said as well, this is where I'm at as well with KC. Love the laid back vibe.

Great take, daGoat.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by GRID »

If I could describe StL people in one word, it would be "clicky".

They are very insular too. I'm pretty sure everybody in metro StL is from metro StL.

KC is not really like that.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by AlkaliAxel »

One thing STL has on us right now that I'm ashamed we don't have is the downtown MLS stadium. I wasn't there at the time but I'm guessing when they started deciding it in 2007-08 downtown wasn't a thing yet and it was still "cool" to build in the Kansas suburbs and nowhere else
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:46 am One thing STL has on us right now that I'm ashamed we don't have is the downtown MLS stadium. I wasn't there at the time but I'm guessing when they started deciding it in 2007-08 downtown wasn't a thing yet and it was still "cool" to build in the Kansas suburbs and nowhere else
My son went to KC a couple weeks and and asked why the MLS stadium was out there "in the middle of nowhere". 20k venues like that are perfect for downtowns. That was a pretty big missed opportunity, but yeah, downtown was not even in the discussion at the time. Not to mention, the people that owned the team are the Cerner people and I think they pretty much hate downtown.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by KCPowercat »

It used to be a thing back in the 90s. The reverse is happening now.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by alejandro46 »

STL has a lot of great things going for it, but their challenges with population decline and urban decay are harder to solve than over here imho. I think you may be getting too small of a sample size based on forums. I don't think most people really think about stuff like that.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by beautyfromashes »

Only thing I’m jealous of is the political influence and money they get. And corporate HQs.
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Re: KC Inferiority Complex?

Post by KCPowercat »

Their Ikea seems to be in a better location and I'd take Busch stadium right now. I also like how Forest Park is more utilized. I cheer for STL as they are one of our only close cities to go visit on a weekend.
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