New Chiefs Stadium

[alejandro46]

Last transit post leaking on the Chiefs stadium thread, but KCMO can improve our existing streetcar to meet our regional needs through simple things like dedicated ROW and light priority, and even Tram-Train technology offered by the CAF Urbos.

Most of the stops are going to be close together. Frequency is more important than high top speed. Keeping the same equipment will save us money in long run and focusing on the FREE aspect of the system versus a true Light Rail based system completely seperate from the streetcar.

A train to TSC would cement Chiefs connectivity to downtown, open it up to event like World Cup and concerts. Yes, it won't take 80000 people who are going to drive anyways, but for workers and residents downtown and the east side it would connect TSC and Downtown without a car along with the potential to go as far as Lee's Summit along already owned right of way.

[TheLastGentleman]

JoCo is better connected to the city because it doesn't have miles of dangerous neighborhoods, a river, a highway, and undeveloped land separating it from the core.

Sounds like those areas desperately need investment and urban improvements….things like, say, a streetcar route

[GRID]

Last transit post leaking on the Chiefs stadium thread, but KCMO can improve our existing streetcar to meet our regional needs through simple things like dedicated ROW and light priority, and even Tram-Train technology offered by the CAF Urbos.

Most of the stops are going to be close together. Frequency is more important than high top speed. Keeping the same equipment will save us money in long run and focusing on the FREE aspect of the system versus a true Light Rail based system completely seperate from the streetcar.

A train to TSC would cement Chiefs connectivity to downtown, open it up to event like World Cup and concerts. Yes, it won't take 80000 people who are going to drive anyways, but for workers and residents downtown and the east side it would connect TSC and Downtown without a car along with the potential to go as far as Lee's Summit along already owned right of way.

When I lived in Blue Springs and used the bus from there, more people used the Blue Springs Express daily than all the JoCo buses combined to downtown. They just couldn't seem to keep the route funded or use proper sized/type buses for such a route. But even then, the buses were nearly always standing room packed on a city bus that should be a commuter bus.

I think you totally underestimate transit demand in Jackson County. The problem is nobody that runs the county has a clue what they are doing nor how to implement a decent county wide transit system. Jackson County has close to 3/4 million people and transit barely exists in the county outside of the core of KCMO.

If you run streetcars to the stadiums through the leeds industrial district and end them at the stadiums, they will be empty nearly 99% of the time beyond the near east side. Before and after chiefs games will be the only time they will be utilized and they won't even move 10% of what the old Chiefs Express bus routes did nor with they get anywhere near the stadium like the buses did. People will have to walk from nearly Raytown Road.

And rail to JoCo? The county that has like two fixed route bus lines going to it from KCMO and a few rush hour express bus routes? Yeah, that's even more of a pipe dream than LRT going to Blue Springs/Lee's Summit.

[normalthings]

Last transit post leaking on the Chiefs stadium thread, but KCMO can improve our existing streetcar to meet our regional needs through simple things like dedicated ROW and light priority, and even Tram-Train technology offered by the CAF Urbos.

Most of the stops are going to be close together. Frequency is more important than high top speed. Keeping the same equipment will save us money in long run and focusing on the FREE aspect of the system versus a true Light Rail based system completely seperate from the streetcar.

A train to TSC would cement Chiefs connectivity to downtown, open it up to event like World Cup and concerts. Yes, it won't take 80000 people who are going to drive anyways, but for workers and residents downtown and the east side it would connect TSC and Downtown without a car along with the potential to go as far as Lee's Summit along already owned right of way.

If you run streetcars to the stadiums through the leeds industrial district and end them at the stadiums, they will be empty nearly 99% of the time beyond the near east side. Before and after chiefs games will be the only time they will be utilized and they won't even move 10% of what the old Chiefs Express bus routes did nor with they get anywhere near the stadium like the buses did. People will have to walk from nearly Raytown Road.

I think the idea of a county transit proposal would include a bus hub at TSC and plans for further rail extensions to LS

[AlkaliAxel]

JoCo won’t ride the rail lines.

Most of them truly believe that if they’re inconvenienced for more than a minute, then they’ll be like “ughhh this is ridiculous I’m just gonna take the car”

[moderne]

Lees Summit would more likely want transit to JoCo, thats where it seems most of them work. Eastern JaxCo does not have the large job base that JoCo has.

[GRID]

Lees Summit would more likely want transit to JoCo, thats where it seems most of them work. Eastern JaxCo does not have the large job base that JoCo has.

Most people in Eastern Jax have some pretty rough commutes. I know people there that have commutes similar to DC commutes 45-60 minutes since they commute to southern and western JoCo, KCI area, Liberty and Downtown.

Blue Springs got a federal grant once for a commuter route from their park and rides to the Sprint Campus and a few other spots in JoCo. I didn't even work out there and I took it to try it out. It was a super nice coach bus, like what we have in MD and VA for suburban express routes. The route didn't last as it was not funded past the grant. Few used it since pretty much nobody knew about it. But wow, it was really nice.

[alejandro46]

No thanks a street car to that dump of an area would be a total waste of resources. The city would be much better off having the street car go to the airport.

I've said this before, but once more, for those in back. . .

1. RideKC, Streetcar Authority, KU Med, are already studying east-west connection. They know it's a priority, and it scored the next highest in the NextRail alignment survey.
2.TSC is the terminus, but don't let that distract you from the rest of the route. TSC wouldn't be able to be primary conduit for 80k fans anyways, plus people like to tailgate. Additionally, if the Chiefs build an entertainment, hotel, apartment, type hub, having transit direct to downtown would be a MAJOR bonus.
3. "That dump" of an area is not a dump just by magic. Things happen for a reason. It's has no connection to the city, limited bus service, opportunities, and bounded by highways and the stadium. Even without TSC, it just becomes yet another empty parking lot in KC, generating no revenue but taking up revenue.
4. There is a LOT of neighborhoods of low income people, minorities, etc. and affordable housing between KCMO and TSC. In addition there are a LOT of vacant lots along with dillapidated buildings ready for redevelopment, such as 911 Linwood and Troost corners.
5. The VA. It's a job hub as well as important to get Vets to heathcare, especially disabled persons without reliable transit. Connect KU on one end, VA/TSC on the other.
6. Rock Island Railway corridor connection allows further rail into Jackson County.

It really is about as straightforward as it gets. After NKC, KU to TSC should be the next expansion. Do it in phases, as it won't be cheap.

Please stop with your terrible idea.

1. Linwood alignment was not my idea. It was in next rail as the 3rd most highly rated extension. Funding is an issue.

2. This area is already under additional study. https://kcstreetcar.org/east-west-trans ... car-study/

3. Constructive criticism and disagreement is welcome. Rude/dismissive behavior isn’t. Thanks.

[AlkaliAxel]

Alex Gold
@AlexGold
A very interesting Amendment was just offered to this KS Sports Wagering bill. “ Would create a fund to recruit professional sports teams to kansas.” Some of the sports wagering betting revenue would go to this fund. #Chiefskingdom
10:12 AM · Apr 1, 2022

Dang. Another revenue source along with STAR they can poach the team with now. Missouri needs to wake up.

I’ll also add- this amendment made it into the final bill, and that 80%(!!!) of the revenue goes to attracting a team. Wow.

[GRID]

Alex Gold
@AlexGold
A very interesting Amendment was just offered to this KS Sports Wagering bill. “ Would create a fund to recruit professional sports teams to kansas.” Some of the sports wagering betting revenue would go to this fund. #Chiefskingdom
10:12 AM · Apr 1, 2022

Dang. Another revenue source along with STAR they can poach the team with now. Missouri needs to wake up.

I’ll also add- this amendment made it into the final bill. Wow.

It's only 2022. Kansas is not playing. Good for them. It will get things moving and force the MO side to possibly do something that's not half ass for once.

MO was never really even the competition for the Rams a they were leaving no matter what, but they didn't really do a lot to keep them till they were already on the way out of StL.

[AlkaliAxel]

It is 2022, but I think alot of people are underestimating the chances they could really go to Kansas. And usually underestimating is how you get sniped.

[GRID]

Still hoping they keep it simple and just build a new football stadium where Kauffman is or even renovate Arrowhead again along with some improvements to the area. Get the baseball stadium downtown. It's totally pointless to move it three times as far from the city so it can be next to a bunch of tacky suburban shit. Rather just keep it parking lots for Arrowhead and get transit built down I-70.

You guys are driving me insane with all this talk of running trams to arrowhead too especially in mixed traffic through industrial areas. Would make more sense to buy some articulated buses and run them from the plaza to the stadium via downtown. Would move about 5000 times more people than a tram on Linwood or something.

[AlkaliAxel]

Kansas House just passed legalization of sports betting- and 80% of the revenue that comes from it will go to a fund to “attract professional sports teams to Kansas” AKA the Chiefs. Holy hell.

[SilentSpades24]

Still hoping they keep it simple and just build a new football stadium where Kauffman is or even renovate Arrowhead again along with some improvements to the area. Get the baseball stadium downtown. It's totally pointless to move it three times as far from the city so it can be next to a bunch of tacky suburban shit. Rather just keep it parking lots for Arrowhead and get transit built down I-70.

You guys are driving me insane with all this talk of running trams to arrowhead too especially in mixed traffic through industrial areas. Would make more sense to buy some articulated buses and run them from the plaza to the stadium via downtown. Would move about 5000 times more people than a tram on Linwood or something.

Yeah, no. Arrowhead is never going to get development around it. It's been 50 years. No transit, no development. At least a site like The Legends has development there that can be built onto and modified, and become and entertainment node in WyCo, hell even Indian Springs has potential for something. Also the 3x further argument is a moot point when most of the people attending the damn games are from JoCo or the Northland.

Also, I'm not keen on running transit directly to TSC, when more important connections in the city are still undeserved and make the transit system useless.

[GRID]

Still hoping they keep it simple and just build a new football stadium where Kauffman is or even renovate Arrowhead again along with some improvements to the area. Get the baseball stadium downtown. It's totally pointless to move it three times as far from the city so it can be next to a bunch of tacky suburban shit. Rather just keep it parking lots for Arrowhead and get transit built down I-70.

You guys are driving me insane with all this talk of running trams to arrowhead too especially in mixed traffic through industrial areas. Would make more sense to buy some articulated buses and run them from the plaza to the stadium via downtown. Would move about 5000 times more people than a tram on Linwood or something.

Yeah, no. Arrowhead is never going to get development around it. It's been 50 years. No transit, no development. At least a site like The Legends has development there that can be built onto and modified, and become and entertainment node in WyCo, hell even Indian Springs has potential for something. Also the 3x further argument is a moot point when most of the people attending the damn games are from JoCo or the Northland.

Also, I'm not keen on running transit directly to TSC, when more important connections in the city are still undeserved and make the transit system useless.

The area has nothing to do with the fact that nothing is around it. The reason nothing is around it is because it makes almost no financial sense to build stuff around a stadium. So developers simply don't do it. There is WAY more people east of the stadiums in Jackson County than all of Wyandotte County. I guarantee you that a massive amount of the season ticket holders are from the Jackson County suburbs. Certainly more than the Northland and probably similar to that of Johnson. Pretty sure the season ticket base is about 50/50 between MO and KS. JoC will have the most because it's by far the largest county but Jackson/Clay/Platte/Cass have as many or more than JoCo/WyCo/Leav.

The demographics in KCK are terrible. The reason all that retail works at Village West is for three reasons.

1. KCK had almost no retail in the entire county. So VW became their go to place for the entire county. Blue Springs alone has more retail than all of KCK did before VW came along. So building retail by the stadiums would not really mean people from Jackson County would shop there when they already have stuff close to them.

2. VW is extremely subsidized. Most of it was built with tax money. Not just the roads, but the actual buildings and in many cases the interior finishes. Why would Jackson County do that when it would just cannibalize existing retail?

3. They have managed to make it a regional draw especially from Platte and JoCo.

If they put a stadium out there, it will not be walkable to the Legends etc. I really don't see the point. Are people really going to care about shopping before or after a Chiefs game? And why would out of towners want to spend their time at the same suburban shit they have at home when they visit KC for a game?

I honestly think that the Chiefs could build a entertainment complex a the TSC now and it might be supported. Mainly because Jackson County doesn't have anything now despite its size and demographics. The Chiefs could actually build a stadium with stuff directly attached to it. Just enough stuff it make it interesting. Why not a top golf or dave and busters etc. Half the people that go that stuff in KS are from MO.

If a new stadium at VW is built, it would have to have yet more retail as part of the stadium complex for it to actually interact with the stadium. How much more retail would you build and what would it be? At the TSC, the Chiefs could totally do their own thing and build their own destination. All while remaining in a central location to the metro and close to the urban core's hotels and cultural attractions.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Hello there. Been a busy time these last few months. Given the cost and features of the two newest football stadiums (yes, one was for two teams) and the projected cost of a new one to be built I doubt the Chiefs will be satisfied with a rehabbed Arrowhead. Can KC/Jackson County afford to build both a football stadium and a baseball stadium? Doubt the state will kick in much money so it will be left to the locals to pay.

[AlkaliAxel]

Hello there. Been a busy time these last few months. Given the cost and features of the two newest football stadiums (yes, one was for two teams) and the projected cost of a new one to be built I doubt the Chiefs will be satisfied with a rehabbed Arrowhead. Can KC/Jackson County afford to build both a football stadium and a baseball stadium? Doubt the state will kick in much money so it will be left to the locals to pay.

State of Missouri is gonna have to get up and fight.

Otherwise it’ll be the entire state of KS vs. Jackson County that just paid for the Royals.

[beautyfromashes]

My negotiation for bi-state funding of all sports buildings: I’ll agree to let the chiefs leave for Kansas on the condition that funding is equal for both sides of the metro, T-Mobile is included for an NBA franchise, Royals DT and a future Sporting stadium on on the river DT.

[normalthings]

Kansas Leg attempting to direct 80% of sports gaming proceeds into a fund to take the Chiefs to KS

[AlkaliAxel]

Kansas Leg attempting to direct 80% of sports gaming proceeds into a fund to take the Chiefs to KS

Already posted twice lol