Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Transportation topics in KC

What route should the third phase of streetcar expansion follow?

Linwood: Main to Michigan(71 Highway)
10
10%
Country Club ROW: UMKC to Brookside/Waldo
22
22%
Country Club ROW: UMKC through Brookside/Waldo to Prospect
14
14%
Linwood: Main to Emanuel Cleaver 2
11
11%
City/County Wide Rail Project
36
36%
Other
8
8%
 
Total votes: 101

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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:33 am
earthling wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:32 am Can't imagine Brookside supporting streetcar until the UMKC extension is actually running and they see what they're missing. Some also don't want to lose the bike path. Seems this would be 5+ years out to even have serious consideration.
isn't the ROW wide enough for both?
Yes - wide enough for both.


normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:34 am
DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:27 am
normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:17 am

Crestwood Shops would be amazing and a great start to Brookside/Waldo. Is it possible to propose a separate TDD to the South? or,I would think there are enough people in the existing TDD that any Brookside resistance would get outvoted.
A better approach would be combine several Missouri-side extensions into a larger single TDD, but technically a separate smaller TDD is possible.
Would love to see it and East/West in the next few years
We need a regional funding plan versus just peacemeal TDDs. NextRail laid a blueprint and we need to expand to a regional plan to help lay out future expansion dates and funding sources.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by KCPowercat »

normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:33 am
earthling wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:32 am Can't imagine Brookside supporting streetcar until the UMKC extension is actually running and they see what they're missing. Some also don't want to lose the bike path. Seems this would be 5+ years out to even have serious consideration.
isn't the ROW wide enough for both?
For sure room for both
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by earthling »

I should rephrase that, 'some fear they'll lose the bike path whether a possibility or not'.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

From Downtown Council today:
Support KC Streetcar expansion corridors including:
i. Northern routes(RiverfronttoI andNorthKansasCity)
ii. Downtown east/west routes (Independence Ave, 18th St, KCK)
iii. Midtown east/west
iv. South Kansas City
Task force groups will start meeting in February to advance this and other goals.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by SilentSpades24 »

normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:03 pm From Downtown Council today:
Support KC Streetcar expansion corridors including:
i. Northern routes(RiverfronttoI andNorthKansasCity)
ii. Downtown east/west routes (Independence Ave, 18th St, KCK)
iii. Midtown east/west
iv. South Kansas City
Task force groups will start meeting in February to advance this and other goals.
KCK you say?
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alejandro46
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Why do we have a giant document that plans out the next 20 years of streetcar like the downtown KC thing has? Makes no sense
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

Omaha to announce plans for a 3 mile streetcar line and financing plan with no tax payer support tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how they do it
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:38 am Omaha to announce plans for a 3 mile streetcar line and financing plan with no tax payer support tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how they do it
Exciting and great news! Hopefully once the project advances there will be some government support.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:46 pm Why do we have a giant document that plans out the next 20 years of streetcar like the downtown KC thing has? Makes no sense
MARC has long range streetcar planning included in it's 2040 Transportation plan. It's been discussed here before as well.

https://www.marc2.org/tr_rtp/projectdet ... x?PID=1321
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

alejandro46 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:25 pm Vision Plan:https://www.downtownkc.org/imagine/#overview

Page about Streetcar expansion: https://www.downtownkc.org/wp-content/u ... ansion.pdf
They're way out ahead of the cities and the Streetcar Authority here. I would call it "illustrative" at this point, but lots of good stuff to support here that doesn't involve a bunch of new lines like making better use of the ROW and development to enhance the streetcar (walkable streetscape, signal priority, mixed use, active ground floor).
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

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normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:38 am Omaha to announce plans for a 3 mile streetcar line and financing plan with no tax payer support tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how they do it
3 miles, free to ride system. Modern LRT vehicle.
No tax increase funding plan developed by urban core association.

$225 million project cost estimate. $354 million minimum revenue projection. TIF: extending all existing TIFs to 20/25 years and capturing those funds for transit. All new TIF projects (like the new HQ) will contribute 25% of proceeds to the streetcar. These are only for TIF within 3 blocks of the line. Will also use revenues from city owned downtown garages to help pay for O&M into the far future.

2022/23 design. 2026 open. Does not sound like they are applying for federal funds.

Immediate launch or a north/south route study. They do plan on applying for federal funds for that.

Image
Last edited by normalthings on Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

I’m wondering how they’re pulling off private funding.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:18 pm I’m wondering how they’re pulling off private funding.
see above
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:20 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:18 pm I’m wondering how they’re pulling off private funding.
see above
No I read that, I just can’t believe they bring in enough from the parking to fund operation near indefinitely. Wouldn’t that taper as they continue filling in?
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:14 pm Does not sound like they are applying for federal funds.
Because it wouldn't qualify due to the high cost and low benefit. OKC followed the same path. The good thing about that approach is that is costs less because the feds require all sorts of things a locally-funded project doesn't.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:57 pm
normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:20 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:18 pm I’m wondering how they’re pulling off private funding.
see above
No I read that, I just can’t believe they bring in enough from the parking to fund operation near indefinitely. Wouldn’t that taper as they continue filling in?
All new TIF projects will pay 25% into the streetcar fund and also the city parking garage revenues will cover the $6.5 yearly O&M.
Last edited by normalthings on Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:06 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:57 pm
normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:20 pm

see above
No I read that, I just can’t believe they bring in enough from the parking to fund operation near indefinitely. Wouldn’t that taper as they continue filling in?
All new TIF projects will pay 25% into the streetcar fund. Parking garage revenues will cover the $6.5 yearly O&M.
It makes me wonder, how do our parking funds get utilized? I’ve never actually seen the breakdown, does it just go the general fund?
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:00 pm
normalthings wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:14 pm Does not sound like they are applying for federal funds.
Because it wouldn't qualify due to the high cost and low benefit. OKC followed the same path. The good thing about that approach is that is costs less because the feds require all sorts of things a locally-funded project doesn't.
Sw Blvd - 18th and Vine then? Close to many of our high value incentivized projects and its a route that would be "nice to have" but not score high enough for federal funds
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

"“A key element of the [Mutual of Omaha's] decision to pursue a downtown headquarters is the city’s commitment to a modern streetcar line,” a release from the company states."

"TIF financing doesn't come in right away. Special revenue and private placement bonds would pay for construction off the top. Lot of numbers being thrown around."

https://www.wowt.com/2022/01/26/signifi ... onference/

https://twitter.com/brianmastrewowt/sta ... 6965650432

This probably should be consolidated into a new/different thread. Omaha isn't a part of KC per se, although we share a lot of similarities.
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