Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Transportation topics in KC

What route should the third phase of streetcar expansion follow?

Linwood: Main to Michigan(71 Highway)
10
10%
Country Club ROW: UMKC to Brookside/Waldo
22
22%
Country Club ROW: UMKC through Brookside/Waldo to Prospect
14
14%
Linwood: Main to Emanuel Cleaver 2
11
11%
City/County Wide Rail Project
36
36%
Other
8
8%
 
Total votes: 101

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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

It’s cost/benefit, so yes BRT might qualify for federal funding. You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.

Not saying it’s not possible, but you’d need to build incrementally as you address land use. It’s really far away!
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.
No, but putting out a plan will get the future development you want in the location you want to get the density needed to make the plan viable.
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by TheLastGentleman »

DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.
Isn’t the riverfront extension federally funded?
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:15 am
DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.
Isn’t the riverfront extension federally funded?
Riverfront is a small project so it fell under BUILD (now RAISE). Projects like UMKC extension or any other big ones (ie airport) are under CIG.
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by TheLastGentleman »

normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:35 pm
TheLastGentleman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:15 am
DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.
Isn’t the riverfront extension federally funded?
Riverfront is a small project so it fell under BUILD (now RAISE). Projects like UMKC extension or any other big ones (ie airport) are under CIG.
I’m sorry but I do not know what that means
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:09 pm
normalthings wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:35 pm
TheLastGentleman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:15 am

Isn’t the riverfront extension federally funded?
Riverfront is a small project so it fell under BUILD (now RAISE). Projects like UMKC extension or any other big ones (ie airport) are under CIG.
I’m sorry but I do not know what that means
Different federal funding programs
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

So let me get this straight:

It's "hey let's spend $300 mil to build a streetcar line down Main St. so we can get that money back in investment along the streetcar line"

And then "oh now let's kill all the investment that wants to come up along the line that we wanted"

How does this make any sense
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by beautyfromashes »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:24 pm So let me get this straight:

It's "hey let's spend $300 mil to build a streetcar line down Main St. so we can get that money back in investment along the streetcar line"

And then "oh now let's kill all the investment that wants to come up along the line that we wanted"

How does this make any sense
City didn't spend any money on the streetcar line.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:19 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:24 pm So let me get this straight:

It's "hey let's spend $300 mil to build a streetcar line down Main St. so we can get that money back in investment along the streetcar line"

And then "oh now let's kill all the investment that wants to come up along the line that we wanted"

How does this make any sense
City didn't spend any money on the streetcar line.
I mean, you get the point
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GRID
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by GRID »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:09 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:19 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:24 pm So let me get this straight:

It's "hey let's spend $300 mil to build a streetcar line down Main St. so we can get that money back in investment along the streetcar line"

And then "oh now let's kill all the investment that wants to come up along the line that we wanted"

How does this make any sense
City didn't spend any money on the streetcar line.
I mean, you get the point
You start to get why so many people leave KC, but remain loyal to the city. Every few years, KC takes steps backwards, just as things start to turn a corner. It's frustrating as hell and much easier to deal with when you no longer live there. But I will always pull for the city.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

GRID wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:19 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:09 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:19 pm
City didn't spend any money on the streetcar line.
I mean, you get the point
You start to get why so many people leave KC, but remain loyal to the city. Every few years, KC takes steps backwards, just as things start to turn a corner. It's frustrating as hell and much easier to deal with when you no longer live there. But I will always pull for the city.
There are tech, banking, and development leaders on the global and national scale with roots in KC. They love the city and want to do stuff here but just can't get it to work out.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

It’s almost like some people in this city have the mindset of “we can have some growth but TOO much growth isn’t what we’re meant for!”

With that being said I still think we’re growing more and in the best spot we’ve been in, in decades.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:15 am
DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am You can’t get federal funds on future development and density.
Isn’t the riverfront extension federally funded?
Yes, through a small discretionary grant program. You can do small incremental projects that fit within those programs, but no one here is proposing small extensions that only need $25 million or less from the feds (which is the max from the RAISE grant program).

A streetcar project that WOULD fit within that program would be an extension south to Crestwood Shops using the CCROW, but no one is talking about that and it's outside of the new TDD so you'd have to put something in place for operating funds.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by kboish »

Extend it to Crestwood and make those darn freeloaders at the Walnuts pay for it!
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

kboish wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:36 am Extend it to Crestwood and make those darn freeloaders at the Walnuts pay for it!
LOL. You mean my good buddy Kay Barnes? :lol:
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

kboish wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:36 am Extend it to Crestwood and make those darn freeloaders at the Walnuts pay for it!
Crestwood Shops would be amazing and a great start to Brookside/Waldo. Is it possible to propose a separate TDD to the South? or,I would think there are enough people in the existing TDD that any Brookside resistance would get outvoted.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:17 am
kboish wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:36 am Extend it to Crestwood and make those darn freeloaders at the Walnuts pay for it!
Crestwood Shops would be amazing and a great start to Brookside/Waldo. Is it possible to propose a separate TDD to the South? or,I would think there are enough people in the existing TDD that any Brookside resistance would get outvoted.
A better approach would be combine several Missouri-side extensions into a larger single TDD, but technically a separate smaller TDD is possible.
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by earthling »

Can't imagine Brookside supporting streetcar until the UMKC extension is actually running and they see what they're missing. Some also don't want to lose the bike path. Seems this would be 5+ years out to even have serious consideration.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:32 am Can't imagine Brookside supporting streetcar until the UMKC extension is actually running and they see what they're missing. Some also don't want to lose the bike path. Seems this would be 5+ years out to even have serious consideration.
isn't the ROW wide enough for both?
Last edited by normalthings on Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:27 am
normalthings wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:17 am
kboish wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:36 am Extend it to Crestwood and make those darn freeloaders at the Walnuts pay for it!
Crestwood Shops would be amazing and a great start to Brookside/Waldo. Is it possible to propose a separate TDD to the South? or,I would think there are enough people in the existing TDD that any Brookside resistance would get outvoted.
A better approach would be combine several Missouri-side extensions into a larger single TDD, but technically a separate smaller TDD is possible.
Would love to see it and East/West in the next few years
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