Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

I have always liked the 18th and vine idea but I'm concerned we don't get full us of our existing infrastructure that is CBD parking garages and streetcar. It would be a mile walk from the stop. It would be used but it would be too far for many

[TheLastGentleman]

Send a streetcar spur over to 18th and vine. Even if the stadium doesn’t go there, it should still get a streetcar

[AlkaliAxel]

Send a streetcar spur over to 18th and vine. Even if the stadium doesn’t go there, it should still get a streetcar

No thanks Vine has always been a money pit. East Village makes the most sense.

Yeah I agree, Royals said they like baseball in proximity to entertainment and downtown energy, they don’t want to be the engine to create brand new development in isolated areas, they want to be in proximity and a of an already thriving area

This is what happens when you put stadiums in an isolated area: https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/ ... 58950?s=21

[normalthings]

Send a streetcar spur over to 18th and vine. Even if the stadium doesn’t go there, it should still get a streetcar

No thanks Vine has always been a money pit. East Village makes the most sense.

Yeah I agree, Royals said they like baseball in proximity to entertainment and downtown energy, they don’t want to be the engine to create brand new development in isolated areas, they want to be in proximity and a of an already thriving area

This is what happens when you put stadiums in an isolated area: https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/ ... 58950?s=21

East Village IS ISOLATED. 18th Vine site is actually adjacent to an entertainment district.This entire thread makes me wonder if we are even looking at the same map.

EV: 2109' to entertainment
18 Vine: 440' to entertainment

[AlkaliAxel]

No thanks Vine has always been a money pit. East Village makes the most sense.

Yeah I agree, Royals said they like baseball in proximity to entertainment and downtown energy, they don’t want to be the engine to create brand new development in isolated areas, they want to be in proximity and a of an already thriving area

This is what happens when you put stadiums in an isolated area: https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/ ... 58950?s=21

East Village IS ISOLATED. 18th Vine site is actually adjacent to an entertainment district.This entire thread makes me wonder if we are even looking at the same map.

EV: 2109' to entertainment
18 Vine: 440' to entertainment

All that matters is the loop, because everything else is massively disconnected by highways.

[earthling]

Wash Sq Park or W of 8th/Main lots more ideal to be part of DT energy but not realistic to happen, so is it really worth moving if not part of the energy. Add to that it better be a kickass stadium that exceeds The K, which will be rather difficult ($$$) to pull off. And then Chiefs may want same treatment, JaxCo probably won't be able to afford and maybe they move to KS, perhaps renamed to Kansas Chiefs. If willing to accept risk of potential Chiefs move...

East Village has broader opportunity than 18th/Vine. Need a hyper multi-use mega project with hirise living that happens to have a stadium fused in almost as essentially a secondary function. Given that would require a mix of many investors/players, more likely to pull that off within Loop than 18th/Vine. And if we end up with a just a passable/utilitarian 18th/Vine stadium as an isolated island, back to asking.. is it really worth moving from TSC when you add it all up?

[mean]

It doesn't really matter, the rich people driving this are likely going to get exactly what they want, whatever it is, using the Glorioso-esque tactics of bullshit threats and deceit. It's just the way of things. OH NO ERMAGERD THEY WILL MOVE BOOHOOHOOHOOO I VOTE TO TAX MYSELF FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT O RICH FOLKS!!! That's just how this tends to work here.

[KCPowercat]

Wash Sq Park or W of 8th/Main lots more ideal to be part of DT energy but not realistic to happen, so is it really worth moving if not part of the energy. Add to that it better be a kickass stadium that exceeds The K, which will be rather difficult ($$$) to pull off. And then Chiefs may want same treatment, JaxCo probably won't be able to afford and maybe they move to KS, perhaps renamed to Kansas Chiefs. If willing to accept risk of potential Chiefs move...

East Village has broader opportunity than 18th/Vine. Need a hyper multi-use mega project with hirise living that happens to have a stadium fused in almost as essentially a secondary function. Given that would require a mix of many investors/players, more likely to pull that off within Loop than 18th/Vine. And if we end up with a just a passable/utilitarian 18th/Vine stadium as an isolated island, back to asking.. is it really worth moving from TSC when you add it all up?

yes it's worth it. TSC is horrible for baseball.

[earthling]

^Acknowledged!

[AlkaliAxel]

It’s possible Washington Square park is the site for SKC one day. I’d like to see them play there.

[normalthings]

It’s possible Washington Square park is the site for SKC one day. I’d like to see them play there.

The WSP office redevelopment is supposedly moving forward still

[normalthings]

Wash Sq Park or W of 8th/Main lots more ideal to be part of DT energy but not realistic to happen, so is it really worth moving if not part of the energy. Add to that it better be a kickass stadium that exceeds The K, which will be rather difficult ($$$) to pull off. And then Chiefs may want same treatment, JaxCo probably won't be able to afford and maybe they move to KS, perhaps renamed to Kansas Chiefs. If willing to accept risk of potential Chiefs move...

East Village has broader opportunity than 18th/Vine. Need a hyper multi-use mega project with hirise living that happens to have a stadium fused in almost as essentially a secondary function. Given that would require a mix of many investors/players, more likely to pull that off within Loop than 18th/Vine. And if we end up with a just a passable/utilitarian 18th/Vine stadium as an isolated island, back to asking.. is it really worth moving from TSC when you add it all up?

yes it's worth it. TSC is horrible for baseball.

Kauffman is ok and TSC sucks. You don’t need skyscrapers to make a great baseball neighborhood. In fact, we are better off not doing skyscrapers.

[FangKC]

And then Chiefs may want same treatment, JaxCo probably won't be able to afford and maybe they move to KS, perhaps renamed to Kansas Chiefs. If willing to accept risk of potential Chiefs move...

If they move to Village West, the team would be in Kansas City, Kansas, so keeping the name Kansas City Chiefs would continue to make sense.

However, the New York Giants and the New York Jets play in New Jersey, so there's that.

[earthling]

^I'm indifferent but it might make GRIDs head explode if residing in KS even if KCK.

[earthling]

Wash Sq Park or W of 8th/Main lots more ideal to be part of DT energy but not realistic to happen, so is it really worth moving if not part of the energy. Add to that it better be a kickass stadium that exceeds The K, which will be rather difficult ($$$) to pull off. And then Chiefs may want same treatment, JaxCo probably won't be able to afford and maybe they move to KS, perhaps renamed to Kansas Chiefs. If willing to accept risk of potential Chiefs move...

East Village has broader opportunity than 18th/Vine. Need a hyper multi-use mega project with hirise living that happens to have a stadium fused in almost as essentially a secondary function. Given that would require a mix of many investors/players, more likely to pull that off within Loop than 18th/Vine. And if we end up with a just a passable/utilitarian 18th/Vine stadium as an isolated island, back to asking.. is it really worth moving from TSC when you add it all up?

yes it's worth it. TSC is horrible for baseball.

Kauffman is ok and TSC sucks. You don’t need skyscrapers to make a great baseball neighborhood. In fact, we are better off not doing skyscrapers.

You don't need it but to avoid creating an island that's a deadzone between events, building the stadium within a massive mixed use project distributes cost across each use on same property and more importantly, the long term maintenance - plus much more lively outside events if done right. Moving Royals stadium to another isolated island would mostly be a sideways move with some benefit but not convinced enough of a benefit.

[normalthings]

The 18th & Vine stadium will have a mixed-use development. This includes the Keystone Innovation District and planned apartments. You do not need a highrise neighborhood and considering our current growth rates, seeking out true highrises just guarantees a very slow build-out (see St. Louis).

[earthling]

^Would like to see the plans and how well integrated. Just not seeing it compared to opportunities for EV that could attract more significant investor interest. Go big or don't bother is what I'm thinking so far.

[normalthings]

^Would like to see the plans and how well integrated. Just not seeing it compared to opportunities for EV that could attract more significant investor interest. Go big or don't bother is what I'm thinking so far.

I think more than a few of us here do not understand the argument that 18th and Vine is isolated but East Village isn't? East Village has a whole GOV district between it and the long walk to P&L. The Gov district is always going to be a deadzone and there isn't really a lot of space to redevelop after you build a stadium. maybe 11 acres? 18th Vine has around 70 acres for development (not including the stadium site) bounded by 71 highway, i70, Vine, and the Railroad. Cross 71, which will be easy to do, and you open up many more acres of development space in the East Crossroads.

Even more important, the government already owns the land necessary to build a stadium at 18th Vine. Downtown land is $150 PSF, East Village stadium site would go for $75 million for the land alone. City owns just a little part of the EV stadium site. 18th & Vine can be had for the cost of a land site farther away from downtown (the current facility is old anyways). For the surrounding development district, 18th & Vine land can be bought for $60 PSF. You are going to be able to make a lot more different developments work at that price.

[earthling]

We're talking two different forms of isolation here. Am talking about building a stadium that isn't its own island within the stadium property. EV is still within the Loop and more likely to attract investors for a mega scale project directly into stadium property and also build up generally area more significantly than over by Vine. There's also a lot of garage parking more closely available.

Would like to see some concepts for Vine area, we've seen some for EV and some were on the right track.

[normalthings]

Am talking about building a stadium that isn't its own island within the stadium property.

Exactly why 18th Vine is better. There 7 times as much space to build mixed-use there and the land prices are much more conducive to doing so. There already is an entertainment district, MLB investment, historic ties, and apartments and an innovation district soon to be under construction. Live-work-play already starting to take shape.

attract investors for a mega scale project directly into stadium property

Now will that be funded with the non-existent city incentives or do you expect people to pay 100% more to live in a 60-floor highrise next to a stadium.

There's also a lot of garage parking more closely available.

This is the only point that I think is legitimate from the pro-EV crowd.