Downtown Baseball Stadium

[FangKC]

The City needs to intervene now with their master developer for the East Village, Van Trust, and the Royals, and make clear they will not authorize zoning for development of the stadium and infrastructure upgrades if they leave a lot of surface parking for stadium use. The reason Van Trust has a contract is because the City wants to redevelop the East Village blocks, not continue to have surface parking there. I assume at a certain point the City can revoke that master developer agreement. Swope Community Partners got the boot.

If the City is just going to allow the stadium to be surrounded by surface parking lots for a facility that is only used a few months of the year, then there is no long-term justification for a downtown stadium. If that is the case, it would just be better to develop the East Village without a stadium. Otherwise, it would continue to be a dead zone for a good portion of the year. A stadium should enhance a neighborhood, not obliterate it.

Long-term, downtown is healthier with mixed-use buildings with employers and residents on those blocks. That produces a continuous source of tax revenue and vitality.

There is plenty of parking downtown to handle Royals games without a sea of surface lots around the stadium.

If that is going to be the plan, then they might as well place the stadium at 18th and Troost.

[AlkaliAxel]

"Education" isn't going to stop the guy who owns the lot across the street from the stadium from turning it into parking and gouging people who value that convenience more than the cash they would save from walking ten minutes. Parking lots are going to be a problem until the land is too valuable to use that way, and not only will a stadium not fix that problem, it will actually make parking a more valuable use for that land than it was before. Over time, maybe the land value will rise anyway and eventually a real building will take the place of a parking lot, but that will be in spite of, not because of, the stadium.

I'm not sure how to do it but they need to find a way to get these lots turned to restaurants, bars or stores somehow.

That being said, once you lay down a stadium how much room is there available for surface lots? I haven't checked the map but I didn't think the area was particularly spacious.

[DaveKCMO]

My biggest concern is they'll surround it with parking lots. And those lots will be so hard to develop if not done at the same time.

Oh, no. They will require massive subsidy to build garages, as is custom downtown.

[AlkaliAxel]

Goonies is right. The biggest benefit I see to stadium downtown is it bringing life on weekday nights/day games, and Sunday afternoons when it's usually dead. Royals playing a Tuesday 7:10pm game is about the only thing that's gonna get people down there on those times of the week.

[DaveKCMO]

Royals playing a Tuesday 7:10pm game is about the only thing that's gonna get people down there on those times of the week.

Other than T-Mobile Center, Midland, P&L, etc etc.

Side note: Crossroads restaurants were hopping tonight. One hour wait for carryout at Farina, packed patio at Extra Virgin, full dining room at Rockhill.

[normalthings]

Royals playing a Tuesday 7:10pm game is about the only thing that's gonna get people down there on those times of the week.

Other than T-Mobile Center, Midland, P&L, etc etc.

Side note: Crossroads restaurants were hopping tonight. One hour wait for carryout at Farina, packed patio at Extra Virgin, full dining room at Rockhill.

It gets slow during the week but more so during winter. Baseball would have no impact on winter traffic.... Summer nights downtown have traffic for much of the week.

[AlkaliAxel]

Royals playing a Tuesday 7:10pm game is about the only thing that's gonna get people down there on those times of the week.

Other than T-Mobile Center, Midland, P&L, etc etc.

Side note: Crossroads restaurants were hopping tonight. One hour wait for carryout at Farina, packed patio at Extra Virgin, full dining room at Rockhill.

It gets slow during the week but more so during winter. Baseball would have no impact on winter traffic.... Summer nights downtown have traffic for much of the week.

Which is why we could really use an NBA team for the winter time!

[FangKC]

There is some benefit to having people living in apartments--and employers providing jobs--in a mixed-use neighborhood of housing, retail, restaurants, and offices. The Plaza is active without a stadium or arena.

Neighborhoods can be active and function without the need for people to come there from distant parts of the city.

[earthling]

There is some benefit to having people living in apartments--and employers providing jobs--in a mixed-use neighborhood of housing, retail, restaurants, and offices. The Plaza is active without a stadium or arena.

Neighborhoods can be active and function without the need for people to come there from distant parts of the city.

^Yeah, urban neighborhoods reach a major milestone when active w/out events. Events help but the downtown target should be 18/7 activity w/out depending on events and it's progressing well toward that. Downtown needs more retail though and Plaza needs more residential within.

[KCPowercat]

A downtown park could also be the tipping point to getting retailers finally take a leap downtown that would be a huge plus for residents.

[normalthings]

How would a downtown stadium tip retail? I can see it leading to more restaurants but I'm not sure how retail is connected.

[KCPowercat]

If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.

[normalthings]

If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.

Do people go shopping before a game outside of eating or drinking? St. Louis don’t have much retail around their stadium and what is there is all F&B and maybe 1-2 sports merch stores.

[flyingember]

If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.

Do people go shopping before a game outside of eating or drinking? St. Louis don’t have much retail around their stadium and what is there is all F&B and maybe 1-2 sports merch stores.

It's probably less to do with demand to shop and more that you can't support a business off ~85 days of the year. The team stores are always packed.

[KCPowercat]

I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.

[AlkaliAxel]

I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.

^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.

[flyingember]

I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.

^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.

The St. Louis downtown draws more than 2 million people annually. You can reach both destinations by public transit.

It just goes to show how complex an environment a downtown is to make something work.

[shinatoo]

I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.

^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.

Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.

[Highlander]

My biggest concern is they'll surround it with parking lots. And those lots will be so hard to develop if not done at the same time.

A new downtown stadium is not going to occupy enough space to fill in all the vacant space in East Village, so yes, it will be partially surrounded by surface lots in any scenario. Not sure that's such a horrible problem to have. Even if that is the best outcome we can hope for, the end result is still a downtown stadium and considerably fewer vacant lots in East Village.

The surface parking does not have to be permanent. It will provide an obvious place for parking initially for people not used to going downtown and are unaware of the large downtown parking garages. I don't think the boost in value of those surface lots from parking receipts will preclude later development of the space. Minute Maid park went into an area in Houston replete with surface lots and, while some of those lots do remain, many have been redeveloped into apartments, offices and restaurants/bars.

Looking at google maps, there is a lot of parking in the vicinity of East Village and a lot close by that could be made available after hours (e.g. the large garage at 11th and Oak and surface lots dedicated to federal employees - which will most likely never be redeveloped). Also, business on the east side of I-70 could make their lots available and make some cash in the process. The entire blocks between 9th and 11th and I70 and Harrison on the east side of I70 are almost vacant as well.

[shinatoo]

^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.

Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.

How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.

I've been to STl, Denver and Clevland (plus a bunch of other non DT stadiums like Angles, LA, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, ATL). Clevland is well integrated into the Downtown environment. Plenty of active bars and restaurants, lots of condos. I walked maybe 5 blocks from where I parked and the drinking and dining options were innumerable. Plus there is a huge casino directly adjacent to the stadium. It's also on the edge of DT with highways on the south and west sides making traffic a non-issue. Just a great experience.

Generally the same type of location as STL but a much higher level of activity.