Office project at 27th & Main
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- Oak Tower
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Heading north on Main it looks like the bow of a cruise ship. Which is worse, an office building that extends with occupied floor down to ground level with an attached garage or an office building on a parking garage base?
- normalthings
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Tenant, smaller, etc
- alejandro46
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
They have an deep pocketed anchor tenant (FSL). Once somebody signs a lease that allows the developer to begin financing of Strata, Strata will be built.
- FangKC
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Actually, they are not a tenant. They will own the building.
Fidelity Security Life Insurance Co. seeks to acquire about 2.6 vacant acres at Main Street and Grand Boulevard, south of 27th Street, from Hallmark Cards Inc. The insurer will own and anchor about two-thirds of an 11-story, 165,000-square-foot office tower to be built by VanTrust Real Estate LLC.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I wonder if Van Trust even tried to pitch Fidelity a site in the north part of the East Village?
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I had been reading the comments on FB concerning the request for incentives for this project.
I am dumbfounded at the level of uninformed backlash concerning the use of tax incentives for a major development.
There appears to be a visceral negative response - even when the public is presented with the numeric facts: "Site currently pays $100,000/yr in taxes, $1M over ten years versus $17,500,000 in taxes over the same duration if constructed."
There was once a gentle side of me who had said, "Poor souls are misinformed."
I have adjusted that posture. I have concluded these are patently stupid people. They cannot see rationality, even when presented with simplified, numeric facts. That is: "$1M is less than $17.5M." Hopeless.
I am dumbfounded at the level of uninformed backlash concerning the use of tax incentives for a major development.
There appears to be a visceral negative response - even when the public is presented with the numeric facts: "Site currently pays $100,000/yr in taxes, $1M over ten years versus $17,500,000 in taxes over the same duration if constructed."
There was once a gentle side of me who had said, "Poor souls are misinformed."
I have adjusted that posture. I have concluded these are patently stupid people. They cannot see rationality, even when presented with simplified, numeric facts. That is: "$1M is less than $17.5M." Hopeless.
- GRID
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
^ Especially in a city that sees so little of this type of development and in a metro area where the suburbs will give out even more corporate welfare and nobody cares.
This tifwatch group is a disaster for KCMO because they are developing a very loud and loyal following and city hall pays attention to them.
Having said that. What is with all of KC's recent larger buildings being 30-70% parking structures. Seems like the parking garages are as big or bigger than the useable parts of the buildings. Mostly office, but even the light buildings are relatively short for the size of the garages they sit on. Just seems odd. I guess the economy there is just not able to support larger/taller buildings (the actual leasable parts) and or underground garages.
At the same time, if it were not for the garages, the buildings KC has been building would have no height to them at all I guess. The one exception is the H&R Block. Imagine that sitting on a 12 story garage. It would change the feel of that entire block.
Some day KC will see 20-30 story buildings with underground parking go up again.
This tifwatch group is a disaster for KCMO because they are developing a very loud and loyal following and city hall pays attention to them.
Having said that. What is with all of KC's recent larger buildings being 30-70% parking structures. Seems like the parking garages are as big or bigger than the useable parts of the buildings. Mostly office, but even the light buildings are relatively short for the size of the garages they sit on. Just seems odd. I guess the economy there is just not able to support larger/taller buildings (the actual leasable parts) and or underground garages.
At the same time, if it were not for the garages, the buildings KC has been building would have no height to them at all I guess. The one exception is the H&R Block. Imagine that sitting on a 12 story garage. It would change the feel of that entire block.
Some day KC will see 20-30 story buildings with underground parking go up again.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.
- KCPowercat
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Never heard of them
- GRID
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I have relatives in the city and they comment and share kcmo tif projects on tif watch etc on facebook, so that's how I see it all the time.
I have tried to argue with them, but it's like talking to a brick wall.
KC desperately needs projects like this to get some new office space built and to keep companies downtown.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
- normalthings
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
KC TIF Watch speaks at council meetings and get retweeted by Bunch (and I would assume others). You don't have to be in a bubble to be exposed to their nonsense.....KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:36 pm They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
Last edited by normalthings on Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- normalthings
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Look at Nashville or Austin. Big Big garages. 27&Main will be less garage than Strata or 1400Baltimore iirc.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:20 pm ^ Especially in a city that sees so little of this type of development and in a metro area where the suburbs will give out even more corporate welfare and nobody cares.
This tifwatch group is a disaster for KCMO because they are developing a very loud and loyal following and city hall pays attention to them.
Having said that. What is with all of KC's recent larger buildings being 30-70% parking structures. Seems like the parking garages are as big or bigger than the useable parts of the buildings. Mostly office, but even the light buildings are relatively short for the size of the garages they sit on. Just seems odd. I guess the economy there is just not able to support larger/taller buildings (the actual leasable parts) and or underground garages.
At the same time, if it were not for the garages, the buildings KC has been building would have no height to them at all I guess. The one exception is the H&R Block. Imagine that sitting on a 12 story garage. It would change the feel of that entire block.
Some day KC will see 20-30 story buildings with underground parking go up again.
- GRID
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Yeah, might be a national trend, but at least the buildings are taller in Nashville and Austin, so it just seems better proportionally. It may also be I'm just too used to the dc area where almost all parking is below ground, but back when KC did build large office towers (over 400,000 sq ft), parking was typically underground or in a different structure. I'm just not a fan of stubby pedestals, but right now that's the only way KC is getting any height at all, so I would probably choose it over underground parking.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:05 pmLook at Nashville or Austin. Big Big garages. 27&Main will be less garage than Strata or 1400Baltimore iirc.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:20 pm ^ Especially in a city that sees so little of this type of development and in a metro area where the suburbs will give out even more corporate welfare and nobody cares.
This tifwatch group is a disaster for KCMO because they are developing a very loud and loyal following and city hall pays attention to them.
Having said that. What is with all of KC's recent larger buildings being 30-70% parking structures. Seems like the parking garages are as big or bigger than the useable parts of the buildings. Mostly office, but even the light buildings are relatively short for the size of the garages they sit on. Just seems odd. I guess the economy there is just not able to support larger/taller buildings (the actual leasable parts) and or underground garages.
At the same time, if it were not for the garages, the buildings KC has been building would have no height to them at all I guess. The one exception is the H&R Block. Imagine that sitting on a 12 story garage. It would change the feel of that entire block.
Some day KC will see 20-30 story buildings with underground parking go up again.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I don't know man, it's like the downtown stadium where the vast majority of comments online (on any platform) are against the stadium but you seem to think otherwise and call it basically fake social media news. I think you sometimes just don't want to see reality.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:36 pm They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
I know a lot of life long voting KCMO residents. Hyde Park, South Plaza, South KC, KC North etc and I think the anti development culture there is stronger than you may think. That's why certain people keep getting elected into city hall.
- normalthings
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Nashville is using topography to hide some of the garages. Nashville Yards type garages could be implemented along our own downtown rail corridor.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:09 pmYeah, might be a national trend, but at least the buildings are taller in Nashville and Austin, so it just seems better proportionally. It may also be I'm just too used to the dc area where almost all parking is below ground, but back when KC did build large office towers (over 400,000 sq ft), parking was typically underground or in a different structure. I'm just not a fan of stubby pedestals, but right now that's the only way KC is getting any height at all, so I would probably choose it over underground parking.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:05 pmLook at Nashville or Austin. Big Big garages. 27&Main will be less garage than Strata or 1400Baltimore iirc.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:20 pm ^ Especially in a city that sees so little of this type of development and in a metro area where the suburbs will give out even more corporate welfare and nobody cares.
This tifwatch group is a disaster for KCMO because they are developing a very loud and loyal following and city hall pays attention to them.
Having said that. What is with all of KC's recent larger buildings being 30-70% parking structures. Seems like the parking garages are as big or bigger than the useable parts of the buildings. Mostly office, but even the light buildings are relatively short for the size of the garages they sit on. Just seems odd. I guess the economy there is just not able to support larger/taller buildings (the actual leasable parts) and or underground garages.
At the same time, if it were not for the garages, the buildings KC has been building would have no height to them at all I guess. The one exception is the H&R Block. Imagine that sitting on a 12 story garage. It would change the feel of that entire block.
Some day KC will see 20-30 story buildings with underground parking go up again.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
The buildings going up in Nashville are MUCH larger too.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:23 pmNashville is using topography to hide some of the garages. Nashville Yards type garages could be implemented along our own downtown rail corridor.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:09 pmYeah, might be a national trend, but at least the buildings are taller in Nashville and Austin, so it just seems better proportionally. It may also be I'm just too used to the dc area where almost all parking is below ground, but back when KC did build large office towers (over 400,000 sq ft), parking was typically underground or in a different structure. I'm just not a fan of stubby pedestals, but right now that's the only way KC is getting any height at all, so I would probably choose it over underground parking.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:05 pm
Look at Nashville or Austin. Big Big garages. 27&Main will be less garage than Strata or 1400Baltimore iirc.
I think the bottom line is these office buildings proposed in KC are just really small for downtown office buildings. They would be 5-6 story buildings surrounded by surface parking in the suburbs and trying to make them fit in downtown sort of requires all these above ground parking structures.
Again, it's better than nothing getting built and probably better and more feasible than underground parking for a six story building.
But yeah, that office building proposed for Main Street near the tracks will be nice since the garage can be below the Main Street viaduct.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- KCPowercat
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I didn't say there wasn't an anti development culture.GRID wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:13 pmI don't know man, it's like the downtown stadium where the vast majority of comments online (on any platform) are against the stadium but you seem to think otherwise and call it basically fake social media news. I think you sometimes just don't want to see reality.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:36 pm They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
I know a lot of life long voting KCMO residents. Hyde Park, South Plaza, South KC, KC North etc and I think the anti development culture there is stronger than you may think. That's why certain people keep getting elected into city hall.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I just said they don't have a loud and loyal following.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:03 pmKC TIF Watch speaks at council meetings and get retweeted by Bunch (and I would assume others). You don't have to be in a bubble to be exposed to their nonsense.....KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:36 pm They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
I would not say everybody knows or follows the antitiff group, but they all seem to have the same message. Absolutely no incentives for anybody. They don't understand or care that these projects simply are not going to happen without incentives and doing nothing is a far worse option long term.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 pmI just said they don't have a loud and loyal following.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:03 pmKC TIF Watch speaks at council meetings and get retweeted by Bunch (and I would assume others). You don't have to be in a bubble to be exposed to their nonsense.....KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:36 pm They don't have a loud and loyal following. The Facebook algorithm is fooling you is my guess.
They also don't understand or care that these companies and developers can get incentives all day long from Kansas with no questions asked. If after watching KCMO's economy migrate to Kansas for decades has not convinced them by now, nothing will.
- beautyfromashes
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
This council and mayor are pretty weak. They capitulate to groups like KC TIF and KCTenants. When those groups see that the squeaky wheel actually got some grease, they start yelling louder. And there’s no counter movement.