^In general it would seem that way but KC's rents are rising at a faster rate than wages even though rent increase are below US avg.. IIRC, KC's rent/wage growth ratio is one of the worst in country. One of KC's biggest weaknesses is a per-capita GDP below US avg and it's partly due to below avg wages. Great for biz, not so great for affording housing. KC is still affordable overall but housing costs are rising faster than wages. Maybe it's the wages that should be addressed rather than pressuring affordable housing?Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:34 pmI still do not believe KC is anywhere near to having an affordable housing problem. There are many many areas inside the metro with very affordable housing, they may just not be the absolute most desirable part of town. I can't afford to have a ribeye steak for lunch every day, but that doesn't mean we have an affordable meal problem in KC.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:59 am My other thought with this whole discussion in this thread about worrying about 5 star hotels and raising rents is we have a real affordable housing problem in KC and raising rents so we can build shiny new towers probably isn't our main problem right now.
Again way out of scope of this discussion of this dumb small hotel that keeps getting oxygen for some reason.
Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Isn't that mostly because KC is a bit late to the game as far as luxury urban housing? I feel like KC is still playing catch up with most cities as far rents go, so right now rents are rising faster than incomes, but most cities have already gone through that. Also, I think KC's urban rents are going to flatline soon anyway because of the lack of high paying urban core jobs. Demand to live in the city will eventually slow if more jobs don't come downtown.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:43 pm^In general it would seem that way but KC's rents are rising at a faster rate than wages even though rent increase are below US avg.. IIRC, KC's rent/wage growth ratio is one of the worst in country. One of KC's biggest weaknesses is a per-capita GDP below US avg and it's partly due to below avg wages. Great for biz, not so great for affording housing. KC is still affordable overall but housing costs are rising faster than wages. Maybe it's the wages that should be addressed rather than pressuring affordable housing?Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:34 pmI still do not believe KC is anywhere near to having an affordable housing problem. There are many many areas inside the metro with very affordable housing, they may just not be the absolute most desirable part of town. I can't afford to have a ribeye steak for lunch every day, but that doesn't mean we have an affordable meal problem in KC.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:59 am My other thought with this whole discussion in this thread about worrying about 5 star hotels and raising rents is we have a real affordable housing problem in KC and raising rents so we can build shiny new towers probably isn't our main problem right now.
Again way out of scope of this discussion of this dumb small hotel that keeps getting oxygen for some reason.
Although because the city is basically slowing growth by adding the affordable housing requirements, inventory might become more limited regardless of jobs or new units coming online and that may keep rents going up.
I think it will be interesting to see if the affordable housing thing has long term effects and if the city ends up changing that. Bad thing is KC may lose a year or more of development while it figures that out.
No way does KC have an affordable housing problem though. There are plenty of affordable housing in KC. It may not be in the newest buildings, but KC's is still cheap, even in the urban core. It seems like the city is prematurely slowing growth before KC really even gets a lot of true luxury apartments and builds a reputation for having such a lifestyle.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.
Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.
Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^^To Grid. Affordable discussion moved here...
viewtopic.php?p=628062#p628062
viewtopic.php?p=628062#p628062
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
The developers seem to think that a new construction 5 star hotel has certain design benefits that can not be met by an existing buildingkcjak wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:08 pm Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.
Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Why does everyone hate this hotel?
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^If built entirely privately funded would be fine. Not good timing to ask for incentive with occupancy still very low along with city stake into convention hotel.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^I don't buy it. KC could start by pursuing upgrading a couple existing to 5-star (with significant floor redesign if necessary) and go from there. Agree that 5-Star is mostly about services/amenities than building design.normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:37 pmThe developers seem to think that a new construction 5 star hotel has certain design benefits that can not be met by an existing buildingkcjak wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:08 pm Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.
Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
If we were weren’t on the hook financially for the convention center hotel, I’d be all for it. But, putting a nicer hotel right next to our brand new one, causes me to worry about the poaching effect costing the city money.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
This was crushed at full council. 11-1 to not approve
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^Interesting timing for KCBJ article this morning that points out the poor downtown hotel occupancy...
viewtopic.php?p=628415#p628415
Bad timing to ask for incentives when occupancy terrible and existing City stake in convention hotel.
viewtopic.php?p=628415#p628415
Bad timing to ask for incentives when occupancy terrible and existing City stake in convention hotel.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^Privately financed.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Bunch put out the KCTIF Watch tweet about Hotel Bravo vote. Also added that it could technically be brought back next week for a re vote
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
It will not happen without incentives.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^And it won't/shouldn't get incentives when downtown occupancy this low and factoring City stake in convention hotel.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
^Perhaps so if downtown occupancy not so poor but even before COVID downtown was borderline overbuilt (hovering around 60% occupancy before convention hotel) and City had stake in convention hotel.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Pretty hard to get 11 members of this council to agree on anything. This vote was essentially a team-building exercise.
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Re: Hotel Bravo- 17th and Wyandotte
Send this thread to the bottom. It has gotten entirely too much air for such a stupid small project.