I wouldn't focus too much on that design. Copaken has a tendency to commission placeholder designs for purposes of marketing that never happen.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:24 amSo they essentially want to make another Waddell Reed building on Grand? Would it atleast have ground floor retail this time..
13th and Grand tower
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
My next question was going to be why are they even having this when they're still not even starting Strata yetFangKC wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 amI wouldn't focus too much on that design. Copaken has a tendency to commission placeholder designs for purposes of marketing that never happen.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:24 amSo they essentially want to make another Waddell Reed building on Grand? Would it atleast have ground floor retail this time..
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Copaken markets multiple properties at the same time. They will build at whatever location depending on whether they get a fish to bite.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
They're under no obligation to limit their number of projects to at a time.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:42 am My next question was going to be why are they even having this when they're still not even starting Strata yet
This isn't a socialist society. If they wanted to buy 20 acres of downtown land and deign buildings to go on all of the parcels they can do this.
The city has no say in the pace of development without a signed agreement with a property owner allowing them to do so. They can't raise taxes because they're not building. They can't tell them they can't tear down an existing building.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
I thought from what I saw, after the "twisty tower" idea died ( a shame by the way) they are looking to redevelop that whole block with a few building that have different elevations but no major vertical aspects. Hopefully in the future we can see some towers and or taller buildings with some unique design to them. I agree having another building that looks cantilevered is old news but anything is better than a see of parking lots for that area.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
decaf bro....I think it was more of question of if designs like Strata and the other office building at corner of 14th and Wyandotte have no movement, but have been proposed and renderings issued and even updated, why this proposal went up. Like it notes the idea has been around for a while. Hopefully it will gain traction and we'll start to see some of these proposals become reality. It's nice for you to share that companies will offer multiple proposals at once on different parcels they own. It's my undrstanding that with this piece of land they are on the clock anyway with the cityflyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:47 amThey're under no obligation to limit their number of projects to at a time.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:42 am My next question was going to be why are they even having this when they're still not even starting Strata yet
This isn't a socialist society. If they wanted to buy 20 acres of downtown land and deign buildings to go on all of the parcels they can do this.
The city has no say in the pace of development without a signed agreement with a property owner allowing them to do so. They can't raise taxes because they're not building. They can't tell them they can't tear down an existing building.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
your answer is always capitalismdukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:04 amdecaf bro....I think it was more of question of if designs like Strata and the other office building at corner of 14th and Wyandotte have no movement, but have been proposed and renderings issued and even updated, why this proposal went up. Like it notes the idea has been around for a while. Hopefully it will gain traction and we'll start to see some of these proposals become reality. It's nice for you to share that companies will offer multiple proposals at once on different parcels they own. It's my undrstanding that with this piece of land they are on the clock anyway with the cityflyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:47 amThey're under no obligation to limit their number of projects to at a time.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:42 am My next question was going to be why are they even having this when they're still not even starting Strata yet
This isn't a socialist society. If they wanted to buy 20 acres of downtown land and deign buildings to go on all of the parcels they can do this.
The city has no say in the pace of development without a signed agreement with a property owner allowing them to do so. They can't raise taxes because they're not building. They can't tell them they can't tear down an existing building.
they're on the clock with the city for incentives, they can just not build and ask for new incentives later.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
That's a risky gamble that incentives will be available later. It's one prime benefit of the movement to limit incentives--developers should have more urgency or they will miss the closing window.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:17 am
they're on the clock with the city for incentives, they can just not build and ask for new incentives later.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
It could be a greater gamble if they don’t have a tenant to fill the space. Incentives don’t make a project instantly doable.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:47 amThat's a risky gamble that incentives will be available later. It's one prime benefit of the movement to limit incentives--developers should have more urgency or they will miss the closing window.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:17 am
they're on the clock with the city for incentives, they can just not build and ask for new incentives later.
Not having a major tenant after the capital outlay could be the entire profit margin of the business and then some.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
That's some boringly conservative basketball if that's the thought. If they can't see that this market is improving and demand is strong, I don't know what would change their mind. Best to just get out of the way if you're going to sit on your hands for 50 years.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:20 pmIt could be a greater gamble if they don’t have a tenant to fill the space. Incentives don’t make a project instantly doable.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:47 amThat's a risky gamble that incentives will be available later. It's one prime benefit of the movement to limit incentives--developers should have more urgency or they will miss the closing window.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:17 am
they're on the clock with the city for incentives, they can just not build and ask for new incentives later.
Not having a major tenant after the capital outlay could be the entire profit margin of the business and then some.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
To be fair, there is a 250,00sqft+ modern tower sitting with no tenant. Not encouraging for spec space but as mentioned before its kind of small for what we are shooting for
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
W&R tenant won’t be announced until closer to completion.normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 pm To be fair, there is a 250,00sqft+ modern tower sitting with no tenant. Not encouraging for spec space but as mentioned before its kind of small for what we are shooting for
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
What is being left as shell and what is getting built out initially?beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:05 pmW&R tenant won’t be announced until closer to completion.normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 pm To be fair, there is a 250,00sqft+ modern tower sitting with no tenant. Not encouraging for spec space but as mentioned before its kind of small for what we are shooting for
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
But there could be a tenant? They just might not have said yetnormalthings wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 pm To be fair, there is a 250,00sqft+ modern tower sitting with no tenant. Not encouraging for spec space but as mentioned before its kind of small for what we are shooting for
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Demand is strong for office space when businesses are not yet fully returning to the office and social trends may decrease demand for office space?beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:30 pm That's some boringly conservative basketball if that's the thought. If they can't see that this market is improving and demand is strong, I don't know what would change their mind. Best to just get out of the way if you're going to sit on your hands for 50 years.
Maybe they should sell, but maybe they can't. The land could be collatoral for a loan or tied up in a lawsuit. Can't prove it obviously but don't assume that any given piece of land is unencumbered
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Now you're trying to make them sound not just lazy or ultraconservative, you're wondering if they are shady or on the ropes financially?flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:35 pmThe land could be collatoral for a loan or tied up in a lawsuit.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:30 pm That's some boringly conservative basketball if that's the thought. If they can't see that this market is improving and demand is strong, I don't know what would change their mind. Best to just get out of the way if you're going to sit on your hands for 50 years.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Why would you buy land if you couldn’t use it as collateral in a bank loan to make a lot of money off another project?beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:47 pmNow you're trying to make them sound not just lazy or ultraconservative, you're wondering if they are shady or on the ropes financially?flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:35 pmThe land could be collatoral for a loan or tied up in a lawsuit.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:30 pm That's some boringly conservative basketball if that's the thought. If they can't see that this market is improving and demand is strong, I don't know what would change their mind. Best to just get out of the way if you're going to sit on your hands for 50 years.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Long time reader, first time posting. I thought I would share a concept I've been playing around with for a while.
Just like a few others have said, I've always hoped this site would end up being something iconic because of the location and more or less lack of verticality in the newer buildings downtown. I've always liked how the London Shard was supposed to mimic the times when the London skyline was dominated by church steeples, so this idea is similar to that but looking back to KC's golden age and its art deco towers. It ended up 950' tall, mixed-use program atop a retail and parking podium that relates to the street level surroundings.
These are a few precedents that I looked at:
-P&L Building
-The Shard
-Devon Tower in OKC
-One Vanderbilt in NYC
-Gran Torre in Santiago
-Leadenhall Building in London
-Comcast Center in Philadelphia
I should also preface by saying that I don't necessarily think this type of design would be the best for the site and the skyline in general. I would actually prefer something not quite as tall in the neo art deco style like the new 9 Dekalb Tower in Downtown Brooklyn, but this is just something I decided to have fun with.
Conceptual Sketch
View from the south. I don't mind that it breaks the stair-stepping, but I think it would look better with the East Village developed with some height.
From the DT airport
From the River Market. I actually like how it fits into the skyline from this view much better than from the S (IMO).
From NE
From SE
If I can find some time, the next study might be the south loop cap or a lid on Arrowhead.
Just like a few others have said, I've always hoped this site would end up being something iconic because of the location and more or less lack of verticality in the newer buildings downtown. I've always liked how the London Shard was supposed to mimic the times when the London skyline was dominated by church steeples, so this idea is similar to that but looking back to KC's golden age and its art deco towers. It ended up 950' tall, mixed-use program atop a retail and parking podium that relates to the street level surroundings.
These are a few precedents that I looked at:
-P&L Building
-The Shard
-Devon Tower in OKC
-One Vanderbilt in NYC
-Gran Torre in Santiago
-Leadenhall Building in London
-Comcast Center in Philadelphia
I should also preface by saying that I don't necessarily think this type of design would be the best for the site and the skyline in general. I would actually prefer something not quite as tall in the neo art deco style like the new 9 Dekalb Tower in Downtown Brooklyn, but this is just something I decided to have fun with.
Conceptual Sketch
View from the south. I don't mind that it breaks the stair-stepping, but I think it would look better with the East Village developed with some height.
From the DT airport
From the River Market. I actually like how it fits into the skyline from this view much better than from the S (IMO).
From NE
From SE
If I can find some time, the next study might be the south loop cap or a lid on Arrowhead.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Welcome to the rag. Very nice design, great effort. Many would probably find it a bit tall and minimizes rest of skyline but a bit taller than KCOne Place would be a great fit.
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Re: 13th and Grand tower
Welcome! Love the design, would love to see something like that get built there, would really be the next major step for the skyline.
Maybe you could shop it around a bit to see if there’s any takers
Maybe you could shop it around a bit to see if there’s any takers