normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:34 pm18th Vine or Bust.
You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.
I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.
You can say this all you want, math doesn't lie.
The East Village 5 block site is 830x800
The ATA site (without the high school being partially destroyed) is 790x690. The N-S 800 foot mark is most of the way through one high school building
Most stadium mockups have used most of an 800x800 space (640k sq ft footprint)
The current stadium is approx 915x740. (677k sq ft footprint)
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:16 pm
Yeh, they’re going to Tempe right?
I think the nhl market here is nil. Have the blues come over. I’m happy to support them as the Missouri team. Play some exhibition stuff here.
Finally someone just says it. Who the hell here really cares about hockey? There was one kid in my entire high school who played hockey and nobody else ever spoke of it or cared. NBA is what people want.
normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:34 pm18th Vine or Bust.
You don't need to touch the High School to build a stadium. @flyingember. Does not require a super block to be created, unlike east village.
I wonder if you could set up a special assessment district around a stadium that taxes per parking space.
You can say this all you want, math doesn't lie.
The East Village 5 block site is 830x800
The ATA site (without the high school being partially destroyed) is 790x690. The N-S 800 foot mark is most of the way through one high school building
Most stadium mockups have used most of an 800x800 space (640k sq ft footprint)
The current stadium is approx 915x740. (677k sq ft footprint)
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.
Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
phuqueue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:52 pm
They can afford to have a payroll double the size because they are a larger city and a more popular team.
Because they don't have football.
The fact that they've not had football for only a few years makes me extremely confident this is not the reason.
Just saying it’s really the only game in town. You have the Blues which STL seems to love, but no one else much seems to care about NHL outside of Canada, eh.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
K is way overbuilt for today’s demand
I wonder if the new ballpark would finally let us have some real outfield seating like most parks do. Would be cool to have that as an option.
The Cardinals have been really popular since long before it was the only game in town, though. They've only had one losing season this century (and with 78 wins, it was a season most Royals fans would still call "pretty good"). They have the fourth most wins, fourth highest winning percentage, and second most WS titles in MLB all time. They haven't had a sub-.400 winning percentage since 1919 (the Royals' most recent was in 2019). They've never won fewer than 70 games in a 162-game season. God I hate that you are making me sound like some kind of Cardinals booster here since, really, there is nothing in sports more loathsome than a Cardinals fan, but it's insane that you guys are earnestly arguing that their popularity is because they have a downtown stadium or because they don't have to compete for attention with a football team when it is obviously because they have a very long history of consistent success.
phuqueue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:43 am
The Cardinals have been really popular since long before it was the only game in town, though. They've only had one losing season this century (and with 78 wins, it was a season most Royals fans would still call "pretty good"). They have the fourth most wins, fourth highest winning percentage, and second most WS titles in MLB all time. They haven't had a sub-.400 winning percentage since 1919 (the Royals' most recent was in 2019). They've never won fewer than 70 games in a 162-game season. God I hate that you are making me sound like some kind of Cardinals booster here since, really, there is nothing in sports more loathsome than a Cardinals fan, but it's insane that you guys are earnestly arguing that their popularity is because they have a downtown stadium or because they don't have to compete for attention with a football team when it is obviously because they have a very long history of consistent success.
I'm not saying it's because of the stadium. I know their history, I get what you're saying. I do think it gives them a leg up on other teams though with how much that city has invested in its baseball everything.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 am
Sounds like irregardless a downtown stadium would need to built up high with bleachers and have less seating than the K to fit in?
K is way overbuilt for today’s demand
We have the fourth smallest MLB park by seating. The smallest is > 90% our size
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.
Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.
Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:18 am
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:16 am
What prevents you from just buying the FEC and Catholic parcels and moving it ~slightly over?.
Cardinals is around 800 by 700 which fits well on that site
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
I would heavily disagree with that it’s either going to 18th and Vine or nowhere. They’d make a considerable higher amount of money at East Village, especially with the special tax status. Also the politicians don’t matter here. They’re not in a position to tell the team where to go if they want it downtown, beggars can’t be choosers.
Also it may be the biggest buzzkill in modern downtown development history to get that close to “you can go to P&L before the game, walk to the game, and then take the streetcar home” all the way to “yeah we moved the stadium and you still can’t even go to the entertainment before the game or get to the streetcar”
Would you want to be the city council that recommends coming into a minority neighborhood and destroying a black congregation's church for a baseball stadium when there's other sites available?
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
I would heavily disagree with that it’s either going to 18th and Vine or nowhere. They’d make a considerable higher amount of money at East Village, especially with the special tax status. Also the politicians don’t matter here. They’re not in a position to tell the team where to go if they want it downtown, beggars can’t be choosers.
The City owns the land it would go on in east village. City and/or County support will be required on some level (either incentives or direct cash injection). Political support leans towards 18 Vine.
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:18 am
if the stadium goes downtown, it will go to 18 Vine. It is where elected officials want it to go if anywhere downtown.
I would heavily disagree with that it’s either going to 18th and Vine or nowhere. They’d make a considerable higher amount of money at East Village, especially with the special tax status. Also the politicians don’t matter here. They’re not in a position to tell the team where to go if they want it downtown, beggars can’t be choosers.
The City owns the land it would go on in east village. City and/or County support will be required on some level (either incentives or direct cash injection). Political support leans towards 18 Vine.
I think if that actually happened I’d go full GRID and just give up hope that this city ever becomes legit. I’d finally give GRID his credit that “yep, you’re right, nothing makes sense here what they do”. This was supposed to be the cherry on top of the walkable downtown experience.
Back to the K discussion. Kauffman stadium is one of the best looking ball parks in all of the majors. I saw recently a list that ranks all the ball parks with 30 MLB teams & we were 6th. The most recent renovations help to improve upon the last round of renovations. Players facilities are much improved (even more so than before) and fan amenities are also good. Great seats in every section of the park, that are comfortable and not too on top of each other. The max capacity of around 40K is perfect size.
Essentially everything about our park originally open in 1973 is now up to date and top notch. The only thing lacking is location. A downtown location would be awesome. Take what we have now and place it downtown and you really "get it all". Also with the best in the world Sports Architecture firm HQ'ed right here in town I would be very stoked to see what they could come up with. Something that preserves what we love about the K and repacked into a modern stadium with all the bells and whistles, not to mention what they could also do to the neighborhood the park would be in downtown.
