Downtown Baseball Stadium
- AlkaliAxel
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Just genuinely curious, but is there anyone here other than myself who actually wants a downtown stadium?
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Yes. Read a few of the longer threads about it when you have a day to kill.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm Just genuinely curious, but is there anyone here other than myself who actually wants a downtown stadium?
I'm in favor of it as long as it's part of a development plan. I have a huge worry that they're too addicted to parking revenue and East village is too tempting to just turn into parking and never develop.
All of the lots need to be available for development, the stadium needs to be active year around with a hof museum, stores on the street level, restaurants with temporary outdoor seating,and hospitality spaces. Needs to be landscaped so people can hang out when it's not a game day.
The east crossroads is the more natural fit with all of the bars and breweries, but the community will never go for it. We can't create another p&l. So the question is what is the vision?
- AlkaliAxel
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
My hot take I've always had to solve the "dormant stadium" problems is that they really should move the Negro Leagues Museum across the street from the stadium. Would probably be a nice deal for both Royals and NLBM because both the museum and stadium would share traction from it.
And I'll make one of my famous guarantees- the Negro leagues museum will have far more visitors if it's next to the Royals stadium in the loop. Like, significantly more visitors.
And I'll make one of my famous guarantees- the Negro leagues museum will have far more visitors if it's next to the Royals stadium in the loop. Like, significantly more visitors.
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
I'm fine with it as long as it's 100% privately financed.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm Just genuinely curious, but is there anyone here other than myself who actually wants a downtown stadium?
- normalthings
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Will require a TIF district that encompasses more than just the stadium along with with a STAR bond like product.chaglang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:38 pmI'm fine with it as long as it's 100% privately financed.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm Just genuinely curious, but is there anyone here other than myself who actually wants a downtown stadium?
- Highlander
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
I would still very much like to see baseball in downtown KC. Clearly it's not a panacea for KC's development woes but it would bring several thousand fans downtown for some 80 days per year that would otherwise probably not have any occasion to be there. While the East Village location is not optimal, it still would provide any fan an opportunity to take advantage of restaurants and bars in the P&L district and elsewhere downtown prior to or after any home game. The location just provides a better experience for fans overall. Many fans will be horrified by an announcement of downtown baseball but I think most would grow to appreciate the advantages over the long haul.GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:16 amHaving been to games at almost every ballpark and living between two of the most urban ballparks in the league (DC and Baltimore), I honestly don't think KC really needs a downtown stadium anymore.WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:27 am I don’t disagree with you, but I do lol. I love urban sports, but kc has never experienced before. The east village is largely dead and unknown to most. The whole area needs to be developed.
I can’t remember what thread we discussed in before, but they need to rethink what a baseball stadium can be so the place is always active. I really worry a stadium could kill the area and it’ll be parking, a stadium, and nothing.
Downtown stadiums are nice but they are not some utopia of economic development. They just aren't. And I think in a slow growth city like KC, a downtown stadium will spur more parking lots than high rise hotels and apartments.
There are only a few cities where growth around a downtown ballpark has reached a point of creating critical mass vs a massive dead zone most of the time. San Diego comes to mind, but they put the stadium in the middle of an already booming area. Denver comes to mind, but even Denver's stadium area took decades to develop and it's still pretty barren compared to the rest of their downtown. LoDo is close but the stadium area itself has been a dead zone till only recently. And Denver has had dozens of towers cranes up every year for decades.
Hardly anything has developed near Camden Yards and they have terrible attendance now. Same with Cleveland. Pittsburgh has a few suburban style hotels near the stadium and lots of parking lots. It's taken decades to fill in the area around Houston's park and it's still over half parking lots.
DC's stadium is in a super fast growing area that would be developing with or without the ballpark.
Nothing has gone up near Sprint Center in KC in ten years. Why would anything go up near a stadium other than parking?
And KC has zero real transit to get to the stadium. The streetcar would bog down and get caught up in traffic frustrating the few people it could move.
Downtown KCMO just does not have the infrastructure. Too many narrow freeways choking everything etc. And there are no longer any good locations for stadium. I still think the east village site is silly. The views will be stupid, there are way too many highways in the area etc. You will have major traffic and parking problems there and parking lots will pop up everywhere, especially east of the the loop.
Reserve a spot in east village for a soccer stadium and let the rest develop. Concentrate on making the sports complex better and build light rail out to it. Everybody that wants to do something downtown after the game can simply take a ten minute train ride.
I think a downtown stadium would be awesome in KC if it were built in the crossroads and KC had a light rail system. But neither are going to happen.
Not sure why anyone would prefer MLS downtown to baseball. MLS would be OK but not sure why it would be any better than baseball at that locale and it has about 60 fewer home games per year than MLB. My biggest concern would be using public funds to build a downtown stadium and then having the Royals leave at some point in the future as Kansas City loses ground in its rank as a metro area (we've recently slid to 31st place). MLB is the toughest sport for a small market to handle so I could see the team become vulnerable in the future as the Orlando's, San Antonio's, Austin's and other fast growing cities of the US attempt to round out their major league portfolios.
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
I love your enthusiasm, but that can’t happen for historical reasons. There are people that want to do 18th and vine for a stadium, but I haven’t seen real proposals.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:14 pm My hot take I've always had to solve the "dormant stadium" problems is that they really should move the Negro Leagues Museum across the street from the stadium. Would probably be a nice deal for both Royals and NLBM because both the museum and stadium would share traction from it.
And I'll make one of my famous guarantees- the Negro leagues museum will have far more visitors if it's next to the Royals stadium in the loop. Like, significantly more visitors.
But moving historical black history around to a new development won’t work. I promise you. The idea of moving it to a new, gentrified, white area… I can’t even describe how much anger you’d see. And rightly so.
- normalthings
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Why MLS?
1. Smaller stadium footprint, larger average attendance. Rectangle is easier to fit in the core.
2. We know that MLS stadiums can be privately financed in medium sized cities. Even STL was able to build a private stadium. Baseball is unproven and likely a big lift if possible at all.
3. Soccer stadium more conducive to other uses throughout the year
4. Many regular opportunities to host international teams and tournaments
5. Sport is growing quickly. Especially popular with young adults and urban minded folk.
1. Smaller stadium footprint, larger average attendance. Rectangle is easier to fit in the core.
2. We know that MLS stadiums can be privately financed in medium sized cities. Even STL was able to build a private stadium. Baseball is unproven and likely a big lift if possible at all.
3. Soccer stadium more conducive to other uses throughout the year
4. Many regular opportunities to host international teams and tournaments
5. Sport is growing quickly. Especially popular with young adults and urban minded folk.
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
And I think it would ruin the entire feel of the museum if it were in some vanilla P&L district like setting. Putting the stadium west of the 18th and Vine district would be much better.WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:21 pmI love your enthusiasm, but that can’t happen for historical reasons. There are people that want to do 18th and vine for a stadium, but I haven’t seen real proposals.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:14 pm My hot take I've always had to solve the "dormant stadium" problems is that they really should move the Negro Leagues Museum across the street from the stadium. Would probably be a nice deal for both Royals and NLBM because both the museum and stadium would share traction from it.
And I'll make one of my famous guarantees- the Negro leagues museum will have far more visitors if it's next to the Royals stadium in the loop. Like, significantly more visitors.
But moving historical black history around to a new development won’t work. I promise you. The idea of moving it to a new, gentrified, white area… I can’t even describe how much anger you’d see. And rightly so.
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
So does the city destroy the bus company, a school or perfectly functional jobs reachable by transit?GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:58 pmAnd I think it would ruin the entire feel of the museum if it were in some vanilla P&L district like setting. Putting the stadium west of the 18th and Vine district would be much better.WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:21 pmI love your enthusiasm, but that can’t happen for historical reasons. There are people that want to do 18th and vine for a stadium, but I haven’t seen real proposals.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:14 pm My hot take I've always had to solve the "dormant stadium" problems is that they really should move the Negro Leagues Museum across the street from the stadium. Would probably be a nice deal for both Royals and NLBM because both the museum and stadium would share traction from it.
And I'll make one of my famous guarantees- the Negro leagues museum will have far more visitors if it's next to the Royals stadium in the loop. Like, significantly more visitors.
But moving historical black history around to a new development won’t work. I promise you. The idea of moving it to a new, gentrified, white area… I can’t even describe how much anger you’d see. And rightly so.
- normalthings
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
The bus yard is as old as the airport and stadiums. I’m sure they could use a modern facility, especially with the rise of electric buses. Many of those industrial jobs have slowly started to move away and that land will get converted one day to a broader innovation and live work district under current plans.
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Spiller- it wasn’t an either or.normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:33 pm The bus yard is as old as the airport and stadiums. I’m sure they could use a modern facility, especially with the rise of electric buses. Many of those industrial jobs have slowly started to move away and that land will get converted one day to a broader innovation and live work district under current plans.
All three have to be destroyed to make room for a stadium at that location
- alejandro46
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
This parcel was the subject of an RFP. The Entrepenurial Hub was a favorite to build on/near this location, but funding got pulled from the City budget & I don't think they really have got much momentum at this point.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:47 pmSpiller- it wasn’t an either or.normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:33 pm The bus yard is as old as the airport and stadiums. I’m sure they could use a modern facility, especially with the rise of electric buses. Many of those industrial jobs have slowly started to move away and that land will get converted one day to a broader innovation and live work district under current plans.
All three have to be destroyed to make room for a stadium at that location
https://www.kcata.org/documents/procure ... opment.pdf
- AlkaliAxel
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Was in Denver last month when the Rockies were out of town. What they did around the stadium is they had their team store shops accessible from the outside of stadium, unlike Kauffman where you can only be in the team shop once you're inside. Then they also had some rooftop restaurants right across the street from Coors Field too they gave a decent view. Now I imagine the Royals could do all of this and then also have their Hall of fame outside too to keep traction around it. Probably could creative and figure more things out too.
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Royals Team shop is accessible from the outside and is open on non-game days.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:42 pm Was in Denver last month when the Rockies were out of town. What they did around the stadium is they had their team store shops accessible from the outside of stadium, unlike Kauffman where you can only be in the team shop once you're inside. Then they also had some rooftop restaurants right across the street from Coors Field too they gave a decent view. Now I imagine the Royals could do all of this and then also have their Hall of fame outside too to keep traction around it. Probably could creative and figure more things out too.
- normalthings
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
Cardinals is street accessible and Id still consider it a dead zone
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
/hops off bandwagon/normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:42 pmWill require a TIF district that encompasses more than just the stadium along with with a STAR bond like product.chaglang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:38 pmI'm fine with it as long as it's 100% privately financed.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm Just genuinely curious, but is there anyone here other than myself who actually wants a downtown stadium?
Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
That is not true. The Midland was active. There were haunted houses. Time for News, Soakies, and at least one strip club. There were dozens of other small businesses littered throughout. It may have been blighted, but it didn't resemble the East Village in any way.
Regardless, it seems the obvious spot for the Royals Stadium, if it were gonna move. And I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up there.
- AlkaliAxel
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Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals
I guess the better question to ask other than does anyone want a stadium downtown is if anyone else wants it in East Village?