Katz on Main

[missingkc]

Thanks. That does provide some reason for reducing or denying incentives. However, if the construction of the street car line is cause for reducing incentives, why isn't the construction of miles of sewer, water and roads in the Northland that open new territory to construction cause for the same? Developments there benefit from the city's contribution to infrastructure as surely as the Katz project does. Seems like a real double standard. It suggests that the streetcar is not viewed as necessary infrastructure for use by citizens but as, I don't know, something else. A giveaway to developers, perhaps. A lark. Touristy froufrou. I don't know, but something other than serious infrastructure.

[beautyfromashes]

Thanks. That does provide some reason for reducing or denying incentives. However, if the construction of the street car line is cause for reducing incentives, why isn't the construction of miles of sewer, water and roads in the Northland that open new territory to construction cause for the same? Developments there benefit from the city's contribution to infrastructure as surely as the Katz project does. Seems like a real double standard. It suggests that the streetcar is not viewed as necessary infrastructure for use by citizens but as, I don't know, something else. A giveaway to developers, perhaps. A lark. Touristy froufrou. I don't know, but something other than serious infrastructure.

I'd agree with this until the streetcar becomes a viable means of commute and sole form of transportation for more people. When it becomes a true alternative form of transportation to an automobile for a significant piece of the population it will be treated more the same. The extension does this to a good degree. Hopefully, people will use it that way.

[langosta]

Rail connections to the job centers are college blvd are needed before it becomes a commuter amenity. Otherwise most people moving into these buildings will still have to drive to work everyday

[beautyfromashes]

Rail connections to the job centers are college blvd are needed before it becomes a commuter amenity. Otherwise most people moving into these buildings will still have to drive to work everyday

You will see a marked move of major office buildings back into the urban core. Currently, most 60+yo C-level leaders who make decisions on where to office have a worldview where the suburbs is the ultimate locale to conduct business. That won’t last as most new executives will know that most young, high tech people mostly want to be in an urban location and that to attract those people from the coasts they need to have a presence there. You’ll probably scoff at the statement, but check back in 10 years.

[Riverite]

Rail connections to the job centers are college blvd are needed before it becomes a commuter amenity. Otherwise most people moving into these buildings will still have to drive to work everyday

You will see a marked move of major office buildings back into the urban core. Currently, most 60+yo C-level leaders who make decisions on where to office have a worldview where the suburbs is the ultimate locale to conduct business. That won’t last as most new executives will know that most young, high tech people mostly want to be in an urban location and that to attract those people from the coasts they need to have a presence there. You’ll probably scoff at the statement, but check back in 10 years.

I agree this will become even more important as companies cut down on the number in the office. Making giant buildings cut off from everything make less sense

[langosta]

Rail connections to the job centers are college blvd are needed before it becomes a commuter amenity. Otherwise most people moving into these buildings will still have to drive to work everyday

You will see a marked move of major office buildings back into the urban core. Currently, most 60+yo C-level leaders who make decisions on where to office have a worldview where the suburbs is the ultimate locale to conduct business. That won’t last as most new executives will know that most young, high tech people mostly want to be in an urban location and that to attract those people from the coasts they need to have a presence there. You’ll probably scoff at the statement, but check back in 10 years.

I agree this will become even more important as companies cut down on the number in the office. Making giant buildings cut off from everything make less sense

Tell me that two years ago and I would have believed you. Creative Planning, Zoom, DEG, Terracon, etc have gone big in the suburbs recently. These are the types of businesses I would have expected to go downtown but didn’t. Young, creative, etc are still going to OP.

We are either going to have to connect the core to OP and college blvd to provide access to jobs for core residents or we will need to feed OP residents into the core for these supposed job relocations. Either way service will be needed

[earthling]

This doesn't represent all office jobs but is interesting to see that MO side of metro (mostly DT to Plaza) is recently growing significantly in Pro Biz Services jobs while KS side of metro has been declining. Actually, it reversed around 2015/16. Both have declined in Financial jobs since COVID but MO side has more.

There's a chance once the streetcar system matures, those lines will attract more national outpost office jobs along those stretches than in JoCo. Especially if a line extends further north than NKC that would bring in city workers who want suburban living. JoCo leaders' sentiment appears they won't support rail into City, perhaps in fear of losing more jobs to city.





Back on topic, either way rents are going to likely be higher along the streetcar not just for job purposes but amenities/eats/entertainment entirely along the line that's free fare access. Especially a building like this.

[beautyfromashes]

I really like this development but I’m honestly torn on incentives. 20 years ago I’d say throw money at it to make it happen. But, the streetcar is going in. We’re further along. I’m not convinced it’s necessary. Also, I think cutting back incentives seems to be creating some urgency. Developers realize that they better get shovels in the ground because each year, money demolishes. Move it or lose it!

[normalthings]

I really like this development but I’m honestly torn on incentives. 20 years ago I’d say throw money at it to make it happen. But, the streetcar is going in. We’re further along. I’m not convinced it’s necessary. Also, I think cutting back incentives seems to be creating some urgency. Developers realize that they better get shovels in the ground because each year, money demolishes. Move it or lose it!

This comment makes no sense to me. Every project in the works for the next 5 years submitted applications but they have 4-5 years to start once approved. Nothing changed other than when they were announced.

[langosta]

This doesn't represent all office jobs but is interesting to see that MO side of metro (mostly DT to Plaza) is recently growing significantly in Pro Biz Services jobs while KS side of metro has been declining. Actually, it reversed around 2015/16. Both have declined in Financial jobs since COVID but MO side has more.

There's a chance once the streetcar system matures, those lines will attract more national outpost office jobs along those stretches than in JoCo. Especially if a line extends further north than NKC that would bring in city workers who want suburban living. JoCo leaders' sentiment appears they won't support rail into City, perhaps in fear of losing more jobs to city.

What you are saying is why I so strongly push for Brookside/Waldo streetcar

[normalthings]

See the below-ground garage replaced with a podium if not an entire cancellation if incentives are not approved.

[TheLastGentleman]

Still incredible to me how the teams behind these projects present themselves like paupers. We're seeing the greatest interest in urban living in the better part of a century and yet we're expected to believe these things are just scraping by. Don't call yourselves "LuxLiving" or such if you're so strapped for cash the government has to subsidize you

[normalthings]

Our region has built/completed/proposed at least 1 or 2 billion in highways since the UMKC streetcar was proposed. For every infrastructure “incentive” for downtown we have provided 3 for the suburbs. That comes after decades of basically no downtown transit cap-Ex and tons of highway spending.

[Chris Stritzel]

UPDATE: Council Development Committee recommends Katz redevelopment receive 15-year property tax abatement, 10 years at 75 percent, five years at 37.5 percent. Goes to the full Council on Thursday. Developer OK with 15-year compromise.

From Kevin Collison on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kckansascity/status ... 2416925698

[normalthings]

Heated debate, with historic preservationists strongly supportive of saving Katz building. Opponents fiercely oppose incentives for upscale development and amenities and say what the city needs is affordable housing. Committee vote 3-1.

We need as much housing as possible. I have yet to see any proposals that make building housing cheaper or easier to construct.

[DaveKCMO]

It's absolutely true that the city hasn't worked on the production side to reduce housing costs, it's just been incentivizing the existing process. And we still have a citywide parking minimum that adds all of that cost to rents!

[FangKC]

The only way to really create any abundance of affordable housing is for government to incentivize it through low-income tax credits. The state has been loathe to do this. We will see what the federal government does. With interest rates so low, it's cheap to finance building. It's the land, materials, and labor that are expensive.

New single family houses have been growing in square footage over the past decades. Some houses are very large when one considers how small family sizes are these days. The problem is that they sell for higher prices based on that sq. footage, which makes all housing costs go up because asking prices per sq. foot are based on comparable sales.

Another method is to allow the missing middle housing back into neighborhoods. Duplexes and triplexes instead of SFHs--and accessory dwelllings. Then you get people protesting that.

[earthling]

It was time for City to reduce incentives in areas that already have decent momentum but is still acceptable for uses that generate broader public benefit such as affordable housing, and KCMO might need to adjust the requirements if it slows development too much. But for this project, the long term snowball effect of streetcar is and will be huge as it was for downtown. The streetcar itself is the incentive. If the developer couldn't handle the historical aspect, they shouldn't have acquired the property to begin with. They are trying to milk what they can now that they have backing from historical group.

[DaveKCMO]

IThe streetcar itself is the incentive.

The streetcar is a transportation amenity for public benefit. It is funded by a value capture mechanism that assumed zero growth.

It's only an incentive if you consider other infrastructure an incentive, like streets, sidewalks, and gutters. And even if you broadly define those things as incentives, no other economic development incentive also assesses land regardless of what's on it or who owns it. Streets don't cost the developer a thing after they're constructed and a very broad population pays into the system that funds them.

Redeemer would be paying a special assessment on the Katz at the end of this year regardless of what's happening on the site.

No one's costs are being reduced by the streetcar existing. The city doesn't even offer expedited permitting for TDD projects anymore. Quite the contrary, streetcar has resulted in increased land prices which has been driving up the cost of acquisition for new development.

[FangKC]

I'm concerned, if we don't work with developers on preserving buildings, they will just demolish existing historic building stock along the streetcar line. For example, Price Brothers buying up the NE corner of 31st and Main. I'm not confident that they will preserve those buildings. There is room for building around them, but again, I'm not confident they won't bulldoze everything and build completely new.

I tend to agree though that city incentives should be targeted for creating housing in east-side neighborhoods. The need for affordable housing is probably greatest there.