Office project at 27th & Main

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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smh
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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by smh »

alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am
I agree with the above. The proposed tower is not well situated on the land and stands in the way of future development on this prime parcel along our major transit spine. Kind of similar to the BMA building over on SW Tfwy, it's built in such a way that the building is set apart from the surrounding neighborhood and no additional development has taken place despite a few attempts.

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Great example!

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by kenrbnj »

I'll learn to attach photos, eventually..

I might respectfully suggest a counter-point: BMA tower was built on the park; on a pedestrian un-friendly plat. WDAF is total crap; with green space needed to support that (functionally obsolete) transmitting antenna support tower..

27th street offers a fair amount of contrast:

The 27th & Grand/27th and Main intersection is strange to begin with. It IS pedestrian friendly. It is an adjunct to the park, which is intentional green space.

Punctuating the "Pedestrian Friendly"? Traveling EAST on 27th, there is substantial residential infrastructure. There is a community in-work; which will hopefully usher in additional eating/drinking/entertainment venues in the CS/31st street corridor..

Plus: this view might look nice with a super-contemporary addition:



https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+31s ... 94.5944864

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by smh »

If the building was moved to the intersection, a great flat iron design could be employed. Here's a couple new ones I've seen passed around lately on smaller scale infill.

Image

Image

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

The corner could also feature an glassed-enclosed elevator bank.

The parking garage entrances should be in a pass-through court off Main and Grand that can be shared with a future building to the north.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

smh wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:55 pm
alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am
I agree with the above. The proposed tower is not well situated on the land and stands in the way of future development on this prime parcel along our major transit spine. Kind of similar to the BMA building over on SW Tfwy, it's built in such a way that the building is set apart from the surrounding neighborhood and no additional development has taken place despite a few attempts.

Image
Great example!
Adding density to the Park Place/BMA tower location will probably never happen now. That time was when it was being redeveloped into condominiums. That was the opportunity to have constructed a new building up against the front sidewalk on the south of the tower. One could even have more apartments over the driveways on the north of building. Now that the apartments are owned, I doubt they will ever agree to adding more housing.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

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FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 pm
Adding density to the Park Place/BMA tower location will probably never happen now. That time was when it was being redeveloped into condominiums. That was the opportunity to have constructed a new building up against the front sidewalk on the south of the tower. One could even have more apartments over the driveways on the north of building. Now that the apartments are owned, I doubt they will ever agree to adding more housing.
The garage to the east of the tower and the land south of it recently sold and will be developed.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:36 pm
FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 pm
Adding density to the Park Place/BMA tower location will probably never happen now. That time was when it was being redeveloped into condominiums. That was the opportunity to have constructed a new building up against the front sidewalk on the south of the tower. One could even have more apartments over the driveways on the north of building. Now that the apartments are owned, I doubt they will ever agree to adding more housing.
The garage to the east of the tower and the land south of it recently sold and will be developed.
office or residential?

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:36 pm
FangKC wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 pm
Adding density to the Park Place/BMA tower location will probably never happen now. That time was when it was being redeveloped into condominiums. That was the opportunity to have constructed a new building up against the front sidewalk on the south of the tower. One could even have more apartments over the driveways on the north of building. Now that the apartments are owned, I doubt they will ever agree to adding more housing.
The garage to the east of the tower and the land south of it recently sold and will be developed.
I was talking about the land west of the entrance/exit driveway -- the north and south sides of the tower.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by moderne »

Those areas will not be built upon. It would block views, and that is the whole point of living on that "island."

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by beautyfromashes »

moderne wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 am
Those areas will not be built upon. It would block views, and that is the whole point of living on that "island."
This is a historic building and I'm not even sure they could build those proposed buildings if they wanted to. I know they wanted to put balconies on the outside cantilevers of BMA but were told they could not.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by GRID »

smh wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:09 pm
If the building was moved to the intersection, a great flat iron design could be employed. Here's a couple new ones I've seen passed around lately on smaller scale infill.

Image

Image
I have always envisioned a signature building pushed up into that corner like that. That might be one of the most high profile intersections and plots of land in all of KC and to waste it with a corporate woods type development with way too much grass kinda sucks.

Ideally, you should put the office tower in the southern corner, with a "flat iron" design as you mentioned. The garage could still be above ground, but the entire south side of the office tower should be finished with offices and the garage hidden on the north side.

Then you would have a shorter residential development on the north side of the plot of land which could also share the garage with the office tower and even wrap around the garage on the Main Street and Grand sides. This would totally hide the garage and maintain the views for the office building while tying the "island" to the rest of Crown Center and Union Hill better.

It would also make the walk from crown center or union hill to the streetcar stop more "urban" and pleasant as 27th Street would be developed residentially all the way from Gillham to Main Street. And you still get your trophy corporate hq office tower with incredible views in all directions.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by smh »

Agreed!

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:53 am
moderne wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 am
Those areas will not be built upon. It would block views, and that is the whole point of living on that "island."
This is a historic building and I'm not even sure they could build those proposed buildings if they wanted to. I know they wanted to put balconies on the outside cantilevers of BMA but were told they could not.
I made no indication about the height of the new buildings. four- and five-story buildings wouldn't interfere with most views. The fact that it's an historic building doesn't prevent building on the surrounding parcel. The building itself wouldn't be touched by the new buildings. Historic buildings get buildings constructed next to them, and additions made to them. It doesn't render the historic designation null and void.

If you re-read past posts, I said it should have been done before they sold the condominiums with the original redevelopment, because it would be difficult now to get the homeowners association to permit it.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by moderne »

Even low buildings on the north or south would destroy the whole point of the design and placement of the building. The north and south facades are designed in the proportions of Phi, the Golden Rectangle. I do not know if any other major buildings in KC employ this ancient proportion of harmony. Putting something to block this aspect would be like putting something in front of Notre Dame of Paris or the Parthenon, both of which incorporate the Golden Rectangle. I think the monumental isolation of the tower is part of the historic value.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by smh »

Folks this is a thread about 27th & Main, get your BMA Building chat outta here! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

It's illustrative though of the island development mentality of 27th and Main, and an example of what we want to avoid.

The harmony is such that its' anti-urban and essentially a dead space. I have never seen anyone on that plaza.

And that comparison to Notre Dame is hysterical. There are buildings across the street from Notre-Dame. Ones that are closer to the cathedral that what I proposed here.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by moderne »

Buildings across the street from Notre Dame Paris are two streets and a square from it.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by FangKC »

moderne wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:06 pm
Buildings across the street from Notre Dame Paris are two streets and a square from it.
You are ignoring the buildings/block across the Rue du Cloître-Notre-Dame on the north side of the cathedral. That square wasn't always there btw. There used to be buildings there too, but Haussmann took them out in the 1880s. For most the the of Notre Dame, there were buildings on three sides.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Notre ... 635?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8530725 ... 8192?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.853591 ... 8192?hl=en

So 27th and Main doesn't need all that grassy space around it, because Notre Dame is close enough to those street-side cafes that you could probably hit the side of the cathedral with a bagel from a table. You can have monuments and yet have buildings in close proximity.

We don't want to recreate Brasilia.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Brasi ... 8204?hl=en

The BMA Tower is an island, and now it's become a gated community. I don't want to see 27th and Main developed that way. I would continue the mistake that KC keeps making.

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Re: Office project at 27th & Main

Post by moderne »

In the Notre Dame case I was just referring to the open space in front of the main facade, which is the golden rectangle. I certainly agree that 27th and Main should not be developed as in island and has no need of any empty space around it. The site already has private parkland to the north and city park to the west. All transit nodes need to be developed densely. KC has plenty of pre WWII examples of streetcar node density, or remnants of it such as 31st and Troost and 39th and Main.

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