Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by grovester »

You would think they would collaborate on the bridge, which is the big dollar item.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

The bridge seems like a logical starting point. It could be a bus transfer point.

Originally I liked the on HOA single track idea but with the riverfront project coming in and phase 2 east largely dead for now, an elevated station on a new bridge means we can serve that development too without needing to run track down the viaduct (roughly $25 million?) and could put a stop in Columbus Park at Holmes or Charlotte, both key areas to serve downtown. It's not just a bridge to NKC, even ending at 10th Ave that would be three stops on a spur line and a key connection to the riverfront that's lacking today.

That's a $50-55 million project when built? That's within the scale of multiple funding sources putting in part of the money.
NKC, MARC federal funds, the state, KC general, KC 4th piac, Port Authority, Clay County all could pay a portion. It's within the realm of doable without waiting a long time.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

What are the current steps involved to get this line built? What would it take?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by JBmidtown »

A miracle

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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by grovester »

Yep, it is going to take everything going perfect and then a little luck just to get the extension to umkc. Unless nkc is willing to foot the entire bill, it will likely have to wait.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by DaveKCMO »

flyingember wrote:What are the current steps involved to get this line built? What would it take?
correct answer:
JBmidtown wrote:A miracle
in reality, NKC council would need to step up and push. none of this tepid 'waiting on KCMO' shit. i don't think NKC has petition initiatives, but i guess you could get 50 registered voters to form a TDD (even though one already exists from the 2008 election, but was never activated).

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

DaveKCMO wrote: in reality, NKC council would need to step up and push. none of this tepid 'waiting on KCMO' shit. i don't think NKC has petition initiatives, but i guess you could get 50 registered voters to form a TDD (even though one already exists from the 2008 election, but was never activated).
I doubt the 2008 NKC TDD could be used because it's a tax for a plan that wouldn't be built as described.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by earthling »

NKC population under 5K. Maybe with a lot of NKC biz sponsorship and Harrah's willing to help fund line to the casino. Doesn't seem at all realistic though.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

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Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

earthling wrote:NKC population under 5K. Maybe with a lot of NKC biz sponsorship and Harrah's willing to help fund line to the casino. Doesn't seem at all realistic though.
can't go to the casino without rebuilding the I-35 bridge over Armour (too low). This was covered in the phase 2 meetings
16th Ave might be high enough but that's way out of the way of most of the town.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

The 2016 presidential election shows some possibly useful data on future train expansion.

21 Gal-2 (Briarcliff) and 21 Gal-3 (Crestview) both voted for Clinton.

So a Clay Co TDD encompassing NKC and these neighborhoods seems more likely to win than northland wide.

This lines up with the 2008 light rail route going up N. Oak and ending at Vivion.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

Watch next Tuesday so see if expansion work continues

https://twitter.com/bryantd23/status/13 ... 04962?s=21

Proof that sometimes it just takes one person to be interested in one small part of the map.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:10 pm
before this article disappears:

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/21/40 ... board.html
In 2008, North Kansas City voters approved a half-cent sales tax for a light-rail line, but that plan was contingent on Kansas City voters approving a companion measure. They didn’t. Although a North Kansas City transportation development district emerged from the election, the sales tax never kicked in.

Michael Smith, an assistant city administrator for North Kansas City, said the city is interested in plans for the streetcar system and hopes for a public transit tie-in to other parts of the metro area.
i envision a new, dedicated river crossing that is only for transit/bike/ped. seems like we'd need modot support for that. once a streetcar reaches the speeds like you see on the HOA bridge, they really need to be in dedicated ROW. not much room left on HOA since we got the separated bike lane.
Could NKC enact a TDD and this sales tax? I seem to remember that neither alone produced enough to get rail there.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

They enacted a sales tax that was legally for the project back in 2008, as you quoted. So yes, they could.

No, it’s not enough money

http://nkc.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server ... 0small.pdf

While this is 2013/14 this gives an idea. Page 91 had the then funding breakdown

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by alejandro46 »

The bridge crossing is really what throws the numbers. :(

MODOT has no money to spare, too busy building multi-million dollar highway interchanges.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by flyingember »

alejandro46 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:48 pm
The bridge crossing is really what throws the numbers. :(

MODOT has no money to spare, too busy building multi-million dollar highway interchanges.
Yeah, that’s why if it’s not on a new bridge, it should be bundled into a HOA bridge rehabilitation. The bridge is 33 years so it’s probably coming up on one being needed.

Bundling federal highway money, federal transit sources, state money and local money from both cities seems most likely to produce results. Current streetcar expansion is four sources between both sections. The starter line was (off the top of my head) four sources too.

The timing of this effort is very smart if it proceeds, since it could take 1-3 years to fund and finish engineering. Even if it’s just the bridge crossing in a first phase, a stop at 10th Ave would obviously complete the hardest aspect of the project and provides transit benefits by enabling transfers to UMKC from the NKC flex service. Expanding track north on Burlington could be done in the same phase or up to two more phases. Plenty of systems expand on the scale of 10 blocks at a time.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:23 pm
They enacted a sales tax that was legally for the project back in 2008, as you quoted. So yes, they could.

No, it’s not enough money

http://nkc.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server ... 0small.pdf

While this is 2013/14 this gives an idea. Page 91 had the then funding breakdown
So a TDD could support 10th street on. I wonder if the full NKC sales tax produced more or less revenue than a TDD would.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by normalthings »

alejandro46 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:48 pm
The bridge crossing is really what throws the numbers. :(

MODOT has no money to spare, too busy building multi-million dollar highway interchanges.


Looking back through the study documents above, it says that the HOA would cost $15-35 million. But it notes that the higher range is if the bridge deck were to be extended. Removing a single traffic lane and replacing it with a streetcar was priced at $15 million. That is much lower than I had expected.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to North Kansas City

Post by Riverite »

If they did hopefully they would also redevelop harlem

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