5th & Main Southern Corners

[DaveKCMO]

This has to be the biggest piece of shit I've seen yet downtown. It's not 2012.

[earthling]

Main should turn into a ped street and send the cars to independence.

Hmm, yeah. It would be ideal.

[earthling]

This has to be the biggest piece of shit I've seen yet downtown. It's not 2012.

Why? Most here generally OK with most of it, outside all the garage entrances.

[DaveKCMO]

Elevations

It's all garage and multilevel skydeck. Totally out of touch with the surroundings. You know what that space will look like in 20 years? The nasty ditch under Hall's at Crown Center... a place where no one goes.

The retail on 5th does not compensate. And what about the parking orgy for just 189 units?

[KCPowercat]

If going with this building design send the east garage entrance/exit out of Missouri, the west building onto Independence. No brainer.

I'd prefer the garage all be west of Main and in/out of Independence only. Retail all along 5th and Main.

[Critical_Mass]

Needs less parking. Pick a different architect, this city has them in spades. The skydeck idea should be a non starter. What a way to say FU to the existing buildings on Main

[normalthings]

Elevations

It's all garage and multilevel skydeck. Totally out of touch with the surroundings. You know what that space will look like in 20 years? The nasty ditch under Hall's at Crown Center... a place where no one goes.

The retail on 5th does not compensate. And what about the parking orgy for just 189 units?

Top section is the north face. 100% retail and apartments on that side. It will look like a standard urban building with single garage entrance from the north. South view (second photo) is where you’ll be able to see the garage.

City is requiring 90 or spots so the developer is including an extra 100 ish. That is enough to support a sizable redevelopment at the parking lot across from Planters. It also might be enough to get TOD Activist goinf. I’m okay with the parking garage size I’d they promise to lease spaces to others.

[Chris Stritzel]

I'll wait to see renderings of this to make a full judgement. I do think the garage entrances are overkill. I like the bridge idea over this part of Main Street, but if it is going to be a farce, scrap it and build two separate apartment buildings.

[DaveKCMO]

I like the bridge idea over this part of Main Street...

Why? To permanently protect urban grime from sunlight and rainfall?

[Chris Stritzel]

I like the bridge idea over this part of Main Street...

Why? To permanently protect urban grime from sunlight and rainfall?

No. Just because I think it could be interesting if they do it right. Not saying it will be right, and if it isn't then I'll be opposed to it. They shouldn't make it a dark and dingy after-thought.

[moderne]

It's not a bridge over Main, it is turning main into a tunnel. Even worse than the Grand CC tunnel because it does not have a wide Blvd going through it.
To be OK it would have to have a clearance of 3 or 4 floors above the street and less wide from north to south. A more bridge like structure, not a platform over Main.

[TheLastGentleman]

This design is rapidly souring on me. The bridge will probably kill off any chance of the old buildings to the south getting revitalized, could compromise the possibility of getting Main reconnected across the loop, and will just add too much bulk over the street. Describing it as a tunnel is very accurate and evocative

[Chris Stritzel]

If the bridge/tunnel thing was removed, I think it will lose 10 apartment units overall, which is not much and probably wouldn't jeopardize the project any. The only other things you would be losing under the current configuration are a gym room, the community room, leasing office, conference room, a speakeasy, a screening room, and 20 parking spaces. The other amenities could be placed elsewhere.

Might as well just go with removing it under that case.

The parking garage is overkill though and could afford to lose some spaces.

[normalthings]

If the bridge/tunnel thing was removed, I think it will lose 10 apartment units overall, which is not much and probably wouldn't jeopardize the project any. The only other things you would be losing under the current configuration are a gym room, the community room, leasing office, conference room, a speakeasy, a screening room, and 20 parking spaces. The other amenities could be placed elsewhere.

Might as well just go with removing it under that case.

The parking garage is overkill though and could afford to lose some spaces.

Maybe they could do a 3 light style bridge

[FangKC]

I don't like all the garage entrances, and where they are placed. I agree that one should be facing Independence Avenue. I also think the alleys should be utilized more for garage entrances/exits. Those entrance/exit portals facing Main should instead be retail bays.

Nix the wide bridge over Main with structure built. I would have no objection to a bridge over the alley that runs in between Main and Walnut if that parking lot facing Walnut were included in the development (see graphic). I would also not have any objection to a narrow pedestrian bridge that allows residents on the east side of the block to access the pool deck on the west side.

I don't like the idea of sacrificing that block of Main to garage entrances in case the North Loop is removed and Main is reconnected. Then, having retail spaces there would help make that a dynamic block again, and certainly make the three existing commercial buildings on that block more viable again.

[KCPowercat]

Why not use wide underused independence ave for loading unloading this garage versus putting more traffic onto 5th? Seems like a no brainier.

[flyingember]

Why not use wide underused independence ave for loading unloading this garage versus putting more traffic onto 5th? Seems like a no brainier.

Good odds Modot controls Indep Ave. That's your answer right there.

[flyingember]

This has to be the biggest piece of shit I've seen yet downtown. It's not 2012.

It's not a bridge over Main, it is turning main into a tunnel. Even worse than the Grand CC tunnel because it does not have a wide Blvd going through it.
To be OK it would have to have a clearance of 3 or 4 floors above the street and less wide from north to south. A more bridge like structure, not a platform over Main.

It will be fine

13th goes under Bartle Hall. It's not 3-4 floors above the street.
Union Station has an entire underground street for employee parking access, it's even skinnier than 13th

Being a platform will make it less of a tunnel because more light will get to street level. It will be just like going under the railroad on SW Tfwy

[Rabble]

This has to be the biggest piece of shit I've seen yet downtown. It's not 2012.

It's not a bridge over Main, it is turning main into a tunnel. Even worse than the Grand CC tunnel because it does not have a wide Blvd going through it.
To be OK it would have to have a clearance of 3 or 4 floors above the street and less wide from north to south. A more bridge like structure, not a platform over Main.

It will be fine

13th goes under Bartle Hall. It's not 3-4 floors above the street.
Union Station has an entire underground street for employee parking access, it's even skinnier than 13th

Being a platform will make it less of a tunnel because more light will get to street level. It will be just like going under the railroad on SW Tfwy

There are good reasons for the tunnel under Bartle and the underground at Union Station. Those reasons don't exist in the River Market.

The goal should be to make Main as important to the River Market as Walnut or Delaware, not some crappy pedestrian alley/parking tunnel.

[flyingember]

This has to be the biggest piece of shit I've seen yet downtown. It's not 2012.

It's not a bridge over Main, it is turning main into a tunnel. Even worse than the Grand CC tunnel because it does not have a wide Blvd going through it.
To be OK it would have to have a clearance of 3 or 4 floors above the street and less wide from north to south. A more bridge like structure, not a platform over Main.

It will be fine

13th goes under Bartle Hall. It's not 3-4 floors above the street.
Union Station has an entire underground street for employee parking access, it's even skinnier than 13th

Being a platform will make it less of a tunnel because more light will get to street level. It will be just like going under the railroad on SW Tfwy

There are good reasons for the tunnel under Bartle and the underground at Union Station. Those reasons don't exist in the River Market.

The goal should be to make Main as important to the River Market as Walnut or Delaware, not some crappy pedestrian alley/parking tunnel.

This is all about perspective. It's ok to have a bad experience at our convention hall where hundreds of thousands experience the tunnel, but it's not ok at a dead end one-way street that is mainly used to reach parking spots?