Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
I’m disappointed in all of you...except FangKC.
-
- Strip mall
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
I never liked the building and thought I was glad to see it go, but it's hard not to have remorse for a building that's taking so long to destroy.
An idea that's a little late for the dance, but what if they would have demo'd everything except the reinforced concrete columns and beams? A park could have existed under a concrete skeleton until future development. Abstract sculpture and cool shadows would have been better than what we're now going to get.
An idea that's a little late for the dance, but what if they would have demo'd everything except the reinforced concrete columns and beams? A park could have existed under a concrete skeleton until future development. Abstract sculpture and cool shadows would have been better than what we're now going to get.
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Liability issue. I guarantee that skeleton would be stronger than any new construction, however. Could have even added to the structure to bring it to the street. But, hey, grass is good too.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
There's no chance you can guarantee that, not after decades of construction standard changes.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:32 pm Liability issue. I guarantee that skeleton would be stronger than any new construction, however.
The idea that you could somehow predict the construction methods and strength of a hypothetical, not designed building is absurd
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Better concrete, more steel. I’d put most any 50 year old building against a new one any day. It shows when they try and take them down.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am There's no chance you can guarantee that, not after decades of construction standard changes.
The idea that you could somehow predict the construction methods and strength of a hypothetical, not designed building is absurd
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
When you go back to 1970 it's very clear why they used more concrete and steel.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:45 amBetter concrete, more steel. I’d put most any 50 year old building against a new one any day. It shows when they try and take them down.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am There's no chance you can guarantee that, not after decades of construction standard changes.
The idea that you could somehow predict the construction methods and strength of a hypothetical, not designed building is absurd
1. Because they weren't using the same scale of computer modeling to identify the actual loads a structure carried, so more projects over-estimated the amount of materials needed.
2. advances in material science. Look at the increased use of stick framing in high rises where laminated wooden beams replace steel for long spans. We have much better concrete today than they did in 1970 too.
https://ggwash.org/view/64626/mass-timb ... -are-built
https://razorbackconcrete.com/list-best ... st-decade/
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Right, we now can use technology to determine the minimum requirements. Back when this building was constructed, they weren’t as sure, so they used much more material to make it beyond question, thus making them stronger and more durable than postmodern construction.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am 1. Because they weren't using the same scale of computer modeling to identify the actual loads a structure carried, so more projects over-estimated the amount of materials needed.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Not necessarily. More concrete doesn't make a building stronger, using the right materials and design can make a building much stronger than we could in 1970 because they used too much concrete in the wrong placesbeautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:05 pmRight, we now can use technology to determine the minimum requirements. Back when this building was constructed, they weren’t as sure, so they used much more material to make it beyond question, thus making them stronger and more durable than postmodern construction.flyingember wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am 1. Because they weren't using the same scale of computer modeling to identify the actual loads a structure carried, so more projects over-estimated the amount of materials needed.
Here's 110 pages on the topic just to account for earthquakes
https://www.fema.gov/sites/default/file ... _p-749.pdf
- GRID
- City Hall
- Posts: 17199
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
And one more building down making the east side of downtown have the density of downtown Wichita. I still do not understand the point of tearing this building down before any solid plan to build is in place. 60% of the land east of Grand (which is almost half of the downtown loop) is either parking lots or severely under developed. And this just had to come down?
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Probably wanted to reduce their taxable liability in 2021 and be able to report the loss in asset value to reduce their current year income taxes
It's always about money
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
No public entity should sell to a private developer that immediately demolished the property full stop
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Public boards should be run on the basis of stakeholders not shareholders. This could end up costing the city in lost tax revenue.flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:56 amThe board would be fiscally irresponsible if they didn't sell to whoever made the highest bid for the property.
Public boards should not be run like for profit corporations
- DColeKC
- Ambassador
- Posts: 3916
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Even if the money has been spent and the result is the building isn't historic and is too costly to renovate? It sucks, but sometimes the land a building sits on is more valuable as a clean, empty slate.
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Totally disagree with this! The school board is responsible to not just themselves or even their students but to the general public that provides the funds. This demolition, while perhaps financially best foe them, is a financial loss to the public. That is not the purpose of tax use.flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:56 amThe board would be fiscally irresponsible if they didn't sell to whoever made the highest bid for the property.
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
Once again public entities should not be run like businesses, they should have the stakeholders in mind. They are not owned by shares anyways
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
The school boards #1 stakeholders are the students. Selling to the highest bidder gives them more funds to put towards said students. The number #2 stakeholder are tax payers. Selling to the highest bidder provides the best value to said rate payers.Riverite wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:49 pmOnce again public entities should not be run like businesses, they should have the stakeholders in mind. They are not owned by shares anyways
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
- Posts: 7290
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
You're forgetting the value of the building to the general public compared to the field of grass. The public lost in that exchange, in my opinion. Of course, the school district had a sale in place for the building to be renovated and flittered it away.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:02 pm The school boards #1 stakeholders are the students. Selling to the highest bidder gives them more funds to put towards said students. The number #2 stakeholder are tax payers. Selling to the highest bidder provides the best value to said rate payers.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
So the least involved and least important stakeholder lost out? It is not like a blighted tower in the middle of town benefited the general population much anyways. The school's number 1 priority should be the kids and as far as I can tell this benefitted the kids better than the other option.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:05 pmYou're forgetting the value of the building to the general public compared to the field of grass. The public lost in that exchange, in my opinion. Of course, the school district had a sale in place for the building to be renovated and flittered it away.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:02 pm The school boards #1 stakeholders are the students. Selling to the highest bidder gives them more funds to put towards said students. The number #2 stakeholder are tax payers. Selling to the highest bidder provides the best value to said rate payers.
I don't really remember a competitive/realistic bidder that would have renovated the property. Do you have a link?
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee
They existed, but weren't realisticnormalthings wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:11 pm I don't really remember a competitive/realistic bidder that would have renovated the property. Do you have a link?
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ol ... -preserved
Recent changes to the federal and Missouri historic tax credit programs contributed to thwart several renovation proposals.