New Broadway Bridge

Transportation topics in KC
shinatoo
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by shinatoo »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:14 pm
normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Nashville kept their old bridge for pedestrians and build a new stylish one. I don't think anyone seeks out the new one despite its pretty design.
Wait, I never thought of this! Are we keeping the old bridge or is it getting blown up? Not a direct lineup but could save some money on a pedestrian train crossing of the river.
I would have to imagine that if the piers don't line up the Port Athority will kill the idea of keeping the old bridge. Would make navigation a issue.
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

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beautyfromashes
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by beautyfromashes »

shinatoo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm
I would have to imagine that if the piers don't line up the Port Athority will kill the idea of keeping the old bridge. Would make navigation a issue.
Perhaps, but they also seem to be one of the cheapest organizations out there. Selling the reduced cost of not having to implode the old bridge might make logical sense to them.

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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KCPowercat wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:36 pm
GRID wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:04 pm
normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:00 pm


Nashville kept their old bridge for pedestrians and build a new stylish one. I don't think anyone seeks out the new one despite its pretty design.
That's because they kept the old bridge! That would be awesome if KC did that. You guys are hung up on and just think I'm only talking about making the bridge pretty. You are missing the point.
Is it really us getting hung up when this was the entire original post that got this going?
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
I understand I started this rant. I already knew they were not re-purposing the old bridge for recreational use. I already knew they were putting in more highway ramps, which will take out buildings for something downtown doesn't need, especially for relatively low volume movement that could easily use other routes. Hope this doesn't destroy what's left of Case Park too. I already know the bike lane on the bridge probably will just end at both ends of the bridge and not really actually be a real part of anything significant (river trails etc). So all that plus replacing replacing a bridge that is at least interesting with yet another flat bridge with jersey barriers is disappointing. I'm sorry, it just is. If you guys are happy with it, that's all that matters.
Last edited by GRID on Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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normalthings
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:20 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:16 pm
I would have to imagine that if the piers don't line up the Port Athority will kill the idea of keeping the old bridge. Would make navigation a issue.
Perhaps, but they also seem to be one of the cheapest organizations out there. Selling the reduced cost of not having to implode the old bridge might make logical sense to them.
Value maximizing not cheap*. I don't think the port has much of a say in the bridge other than "this blocks the channel."

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Eon Blue
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by Eon Blue »

I like a pretty bridge as much as the next person, but what has the aesthetically pleasing Bond Bridge done to enhance downtown, the riverfront, or North Kansas City that a boring girder bridge wouldn't have also accomplished? To me, landmark bridges are like tall buildings in the skyline. They look good from a distance, and while driving through, but typically don't materially improve the experience on the ground. That's where I'd rather see investments made.

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normalthings
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by normalthings »

Eon Blue wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:16 pm
I like a pretty bridge as much as the next person, but what has the aesthetically pleasing Bond Bridge done to enhance downtown, the riverfront, or North Kansas City that a boring girder bridge wouldn't have also accomplished? To me, landmark bridges are like tall buildings in the skyline. They look good from a distance, and while driving through, but typically don't materially improve the experience on the ground. That's where I'd rather see investments made.
Agreed. Even $10 million (massive underestimate) to make the bridge look nicer could have huge QOL improvements if spent elsewhere.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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GRID wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:57 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:36 pm
GRID wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:04 pm


That's because they kept the old bridge! That would be awesome if KC did that. You guys are hung up on and just think I'm only talking about making the bridge pretty. You are missing the point.
Is it really us getting hung up when this was the entire original post that got this going?
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
I understand I started this rant. I already knew they were not re-purposing the old bridge for recreational use. I already knew they were putting in more highway ramps, which will take out buildings for something downtown doesn't need, especially for relatively low volume movement that could easily use other routes. Hope this doesn't destroy what's left of Case Park too. I already know the bike lane on the bridge probably will just end at both ends of the bridge and not really actually be a real part of anything significant (river trails etc). So all that plus replacing replacing a bridge that is at least interesting with yet another flat bridge with jersey barriers is disappointing. I'm sorry, it just is. If you guys are happy with it, that's all that matters.
The bike and ped path isn't ending on either ends. It hooks into the established riverfront trail and gives access to the well used mkc loop.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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There's no trail loop at the airport. People ride on the street. It' not nothing but it absolutely will just end at the northern end.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

flyingember wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:50 am
There's no trail loop at the airport. People ride on the street. It' not nothing but it absolutely will just end at the northern end.
we all know this. I don't see a connection to the street loop as "it just ending"

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:54 am
flyingember wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:50 am
There's no trail loop at the airport. People ride on the street. It' not nothing but it absolutely will just end at the northern end.
we all know this. I don't see a connection to the street loop as "it just ending"
If you're training for a bike race, sure.

For a parent with a five year old it might as well end at a wall.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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given the north end hasn't been designed yet let's just hold up on calling it a failure in 2020.

I'm sure there will be a lot of 5 year olds peddling over a half mile over the bridge.

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TheLastGentleman
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by TheLastGentleman »

The bridge design is disappointing to me because of how permanent it will be. People born when the original bridge was built are middle aged now, and this new bridge will presumably last far longer. Maybe I'm being selfish but I'd prefer looking at an interesting bridge for most of my life than a boring bridge.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

My preference is an interesting bridge too. If MoDot would live up to their responsibilities maybe the KCMO add on could have made it pretty vs. making it even feasible.

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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This is an honest question since most of you are insulting my comments and thinking this is just about making a bridge "pretty". Have most of you spent a lot of time in a city that has a vibrant recreational scene? Nearly all major and mid sized cities do, so I don't see how you have not, but what am I missing here? Recreation is one of the major attractions of large cities. It has to be in the top five reasons people want to live in cities because cities tend to put together and maintain very extensive parks, trails, bike lane infrastructure etc. And people even come into center cities from the suburbs to partake in recreation and yeah, they often bring their kids.

KC seriously lacks recreational infrastructure. I honestly do not understand how people don't see this. I'm not slamming KC. I'm saying this because I think the new Broadway Bridge project could go a long way to being a part of the solution to KC catching up a lot. It may or may not require a "pretty" super structure on the bridge, but it is often part of the package of a large project like this.

It's constructive criticism. You guys seem just fine with another freeway bridge and a bunch of expensive flyover over ramps to add to the dozens already downtown. With a bike lane thrown on it. Personally, I think that money could be spent making the area more of a recreational destination, somehow bringing the trails together in KC and making something that works instead of the hap hazard piecemeal of trails and parks that currently exist in KC.

Seriously, do this right and you will have nearly as many people on the pedestrian / cycling portion of that bridge as in the cars at least during non peak hours and weekends. But by all means, make that connection to 35 the priority instead. I thought that's what the Bond Bridge was for.

And I'm still wondering how much damage this will do to Case Park. This project could wipe out a good portion of the trees there and turn it into a giant retaining wall.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

I honestly don't think anybody is insulting your comments. I guess if I want KC to focus more on recreation scene that focus should stay south of the river, connect the riverfront trail to actually stay on the riverfront (but it can't go much further west with the port there), into KCK, over to the new Kaw bridge proposal by Kemper, and connect to the Tracks 215 project through the crossroads. Connect that to the Paseo bikeway plan into Cliff Drive and you have 8-10 mile almost complete loop there.

The 10' bike/ped path across the river to the airport doesn't seem to go much further recreation wise than to the MKC loop. I don't see that as a crown jewel or major piece of a major urban recreation scene. Seems no matter what it's ending there with the Broadway extension(169) and railroad tracks choking off any further route north.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by beautyfromashes »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 am
My preference is an interesting bridge too. If MoDot would live up to their responsibilities maybe the KCMO add on could have made it pretty vs. making it even feasible.
Or just name it after a Senator. It will always get a good aesthetic upgrade if it’s named after a Senator. Call it the ‘Donald Trump Heart of America Bridge’ and it will be gold plated.

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KCPowercat
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

that name is perfect for what we are getting tbh

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beautyfromashes
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by beautyfromashes »

Honestly, I’d probably just prefer they implode the current bridge and not build anything back. Adding 15 minutes to a Northland commute might actually get some of those people to move into the city.

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TheLastGentleman
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by TheLastGentleman »

A way to make the bridge interesting without a superstructure could be some sort of landscaping. I'm picturing something like the High Line in NYC or the canned Garden Bridge project in London. The eastern side of the new bridge could be the traffic, while the western side could be the landscaping.

Image

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by alejandro46 »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:09 pm
Honestly, I’d probably just prefer they implode the current bridge and not build anything back. Adding 15 minutes to a Northland commute might actually get some of those people to move into the city.
Part of the reason this is not possible, and why the bridge was never shut completely is due to harm it would potentially cause to Children's Mercy and VML based at the airport.

"A closure of the bridge will cause immediate short-term damages to the operations of the Charles Wheeler Downtown Airport (MKC) including tenants such as VML, Inc, the Airline History Museum, Children's Mercy Hospital Lifeflight, and Midwest Transplant Network."

http://cityclerk.kcmo.org/LiveWeb/Docum ... iCkA%3D%3D

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