Downtown Baseball Stadium

[TheLastGentleman]

Just spitballing, but if the fbi does end up moving, what about over there, would It be able to face downtown then?

I think it's too small of a site, unless the stadium could be bridged over 670.

[TheLastGentleman]

Forget capping the north and south loop and get that east loop underground and that would open up all kinds of options.

Please don't forget to cap the north and south loops

[GRID]

Forget capping the north and south loop and get that east loop underground and that would open up all kinds of options.

Please don't forget to cap the north and south loops

Well the whole thing is a massive CF. Would be nice if they could bury the entire loop and put the stadium right on top of the big interchange on the southeast corner of the loop. But that's beyond a pipe dream.

[GRID]

As long as it rapidly develops around the stadium, it might be okay. I mean, they need to be building new buildings as part of the same project while the stadium is going up, like they did with the new Atlanta stadium. Otherwise, you are going to have nothing but a sea of parking lots east of downtown as existing structures are torn down to make room for profitable parking lots. Look at how long it's taking for anything substantial to happen directly around Sprint Center that is not part of the P&L district.

[KCPowercat]

and no way that would be allowed from a security perspective.

[earthling]

I don't think Pendulum has a 'proposal' at all. It's just basic concepts to get some excitement and discussion going. Or seems to be the case.

However if approx design pursued in this direction, would build up those buildings to left/right of entrance to 20+ floors with lots of publicly accessible amenities with maybe residential in one and maybe hotel in other if feasible. By public amenities I mean maybe a new library on a few floors, restaurants/bars at ground level, truly public swimming pool/recreation deck (maybe require KCMO/county citizenship), Royals baseball museum on one of the floors, maybe move Jazz and Monarchs museum here if supported by those communities, etc. Tax payers should insist on many (dozens of?) publicly accessible elements to help justify the price tag and so that it's not a dead spot outside games.



And for residential on left, would fuse the building into and over the stands.

[KC_JAYHAWK]

There is like zero wow factor to this east village proposal. Did they hire Edgemoor to design it too? Gotta do better than this or just leave it where it is.

I agree, do it right, or don't do it at all, is what I'm saying or trying to state. The proposal I was referring to probably isn't correct or up-to-date, but it seems most on here are fine with a smallish minor league looking ballpark.

And I think one reason the Royals don't draw well is because a lot of people don't want to drive out to the K, park in a giant lot, and then walk to the stadium. If it was located centrally, I bet the Royals would draw better, especially with Plaza to Downtown folks, who could literally hop on the streetcar (once the streetcar gets expanded of course).

Why do I feel like GRID all of a sudden

[horizons82]

and no way that would be allowed from a security perspective.

This. Absolutely no way in hell are you going to get a stadium built over an active highway. At least if you’re expecting the highway to be functional on game days.

If KC wants to go big with the East village proposal (regarding the highway), IMO you would:
- Redesign the on-ramps to NB 70 to unlock the block bounded by 10th & 11th for development.
- Extend/Redesign the park one block north over the highway.
- get MoDOT to allow garages built over 670, between Locust & Charlotte. You’d help to mitigate sound pollution for the surrounding city. That location would also force suburban drivers to walk/interact with the city before they get to the stadium. Minneapolis’ garages are a good case study for this, though their street level activation is abysmal.

I don't think Pendulum has a 'proposal' at all. It's just basic concepts to get some excitement and discussion going. Or seems to be the case.

It’s smart marketing on their part. Firms of all types do this kind of unsolicited stuff on “lucrative” projects, be it for the public (like this) or for the owner.

[earthling]

^Yeah unsolicited concepts, not a proposal. Some of you might be over-reacting a bit.

[KCPowercat]

definately.

[GRID]

There is like zero wow factor to this east village proposal. Did they hire Edgemoor to design it too? Gotta do better than this or just leave it where it is.

I agree, do it right, or don't do it at all, is what I'm saying or trying to state. The proposal I was referring to probably isn't correct or up-to-date, but it seems most on here are fine with a smallish minor league looking ballpark.

And I think one reason the Royals don't draw well is because a lot of people don't want to drive out to the K, park in a giant lot, and then walk to the stadium. If it was located centrally, I bet the Royals would draw better, especially with Plaza to Downtown folks, who could literally hop on the streetcar (once the streetcar gets expanded of course).

Why do I feel like GRID all of a sudden

That's all I'm saying. I think a downtown ballpark would be amazing for KC, but if it's not done right, it will be a colossal wast of money and time. A project like this really needs to be well thought out and a good portion of the plan needs to be implemented in the first phase of development or almost nothing will ever happen around the stadium. That's not just a KC thing. That's just reality. Outside of San Diego, stadiums just do not generate development in their intimidate area. And San Diego put their ballpark right next to an exiting thriving area. Would be like putting KC's stadium right next to the Plaza. It's taken 20 years for LoDo to build out before developers really started building around Coors Field and that is one of the biggest downtown ballpark success stories.

In KC, you are up against the highway and lots of public property (fed and local) and MoDot is worthless when it comes to urban planning and financing any real changes. Then you throw in the fact that 80% of KC including those at city hall, will be throwing a fit about moving the stadium downtown throughout the entire process. Unless you get a "Mayor Barnes/Cordish" type movement going, at best, whatever is built will be the cheapest, most modest thing ever with no changes to the freeways, no added parks, no additional development, just a smallish no frills ballpark thrown into underdeveloped area and hope for the best. That just doesn't work. I have always been a huge proponent of a downtown park, but I would almost rather see KC spend 100 million and build up the area between Kauffman and Arrowhead and get a transit line built down I-70 (even a real BRT line) because I just don't see KC pulling this off in the grand way it needs to happen for it to be successful and worthy of walking away from the sports complex.

[DColeKC]

A new downtown park is going to be 33-35k I'd bet anything on that.

100% agree. Let's not forget some of the reason for wanting it downtown is to be closer to residents who can walk to the stadium and tourists. No one is walking to the Truman Sports Complex right now and very few business folks in town for work are catching a game because it's cheap and easy to get to. Hopefully this means an increase in attendance. Not to mention the overall experience for out of town guests. Being able to stay downtown and walk to all the spots required for a family weekend trip is huge!

[Riverite]

A new downtown park is going to be 33-35k I'd bet anything on that.

100% agree. Let's not forget some of the reason for wanting it downtown is to be closer to residents who can walk to the stadium and tourists. No one is walking to the Truman Sports Complex right now and very few business folks in town for work are catching a game because it's cheap and easy to get to. Hopefully this means an increase in attendance. Not to mention the overall experience for out of town guests. Being able to stay downtown and walk to all the spots required for a family weekend trip is huge!

I definitely think having it downtown will make a big impact. A lot of the people I know who go to royals games don’t really care about staying for an entire game, there are like 160 games each year. So one individually doesn’t mean that much.

If people were able to go to a bar and show up for the fourth or leave at the seventh and finish the game at a bar quite a few would.

[GRID]

A new downtown park is going to be 33-35k I'd bet anything on that.

100% agree. Let's not forget some of the reason for wanting it downtown is to be closer to residents who can walk to the stadium and tourists. No one is walking to the Truman Sports Complex right now and very few business folks in town for work are catching a game because it's cheap and easy to get to. Hopefully this means an increase in attendance. Not to mention the overall experience for out of town guests. Being able to stay downtown and walk to all the spots required for a family weekend trip is huge!

Being 30 miles from two very urban ballparks and having gone to dozens of games at both, I think you are overestimating the percent of crowds that walk to games form the immediate local area. It might increase weekday attendance some, but will it be enough to offset the loss from those that don't want to drive back into the city and deal with parking etc. And parking and traffic will be a problem not because there is not enough parking, but because KC's downtown highway and surface street infrastructure is just not designed for large crowds coming and going.

Downtown KC doesn't even have any major streets to collect and distribute traffic to and from the stadium like you have in Denver, ST Louis Baltimore, DC etc. In order for a downtown park to work in KC, you would need to spend a few hundred million on infrastructure improvements alone. Anyway, my point is that most people, even in very urban ballparks come from places that you have to drive from or take transit. The streetcar will help, but still most will drive. A VERY tiny percent of people gong to the game will be coming form people that live downtown or are staying in downtown hotels. You can see this in any city. Clev, Balt, DC, Sea, Toronto etc. Then you have Milwaukee which draws very well from a city smaller than KC without a downtown park. LA basically has a suburban park even though it's near downtown and they draw 50k a night. 99% of people that go to cards games are from the burbs. Baltimore, Pitts, Cleve all can barely get 10k on many nights with amazing downtown parks. Build it downtown, but don't expect it to change attendance much.

You still need a 35k seat park though or again, how do you even make the numbers work to be in the MLB in the first place. Got to be able to pull in those 35k crowds on fri and sat or during special games.

[horizons82]

If the metro is smart, they’d ensure that whatever tax funding is approved include full funding for game day busing to the East Village Transit center.

[flyingember]

Boy that's a bad assessment (post two above)

You point out the LA Dodgers are 1 mile from the edge of downtown and does a great job at drawing people while the Orioles are equally far away and isn't. guess which team had a winning record 2017-19 and which one didn't.

Miller Park (Milwaukee) is 3 miles from downtown. That's like putting a new stadium in Union Hill from downtown. That's not a good comparison to a stadium in the suburbs.

Your cardinals point literally says that people have no problem finding parking downtown in St. Louis from the suburbs. They had more than twice the attendence as KC despite being downtown, even was higher in 2015


It likely have nothing to do with being *downtown* and everything to do with how much people want to go to games.
The Royals have excess parking at games that's easy to reach and people don't when the team is doing badly.

If the team does well they will fill a downtown stadium and people will figure out parking.

[dukuboy1]

IF you build it they will come, no doubt in my mind and it will spur other investment and development. Plus I'n fairly confident that the design will be amazing. We have some of the world's best (if not the best) sport architecture firms here in KC. Pair that with the construction and engineering talent/firms we have here and we are going to build something pretty much perfect, IMO

[DColeKC]

A new downtown park is going to be 33-35k I'd bet anything on that.

100% agree. Let's not forget some of the reason for wanting it downtown is to be closer to residents who can walk to the stadium and tourists. No one is walking to the Truman Sports Complex right now and very few business folks in town for work are catching a game because it's cheap and easy to get to. Hopefully this means an increase in attendance. Not to mention the overall experience for out of town guests. Being able to stay downtown and walk to all the spots required for a family weekend trip is huge!

Being 30 miles from two very urban ballparks and having gone to dozens of games at both, I think you are overestimating the percent of crowds that walk to games form the immediate local area. It might increase weekday attendance some, but will it be enough to offset the loss from those that don't want to drive back into the city and deal with parking etc. And parking and traffic will be a problem not because there is not enough parking, but because KC's downtown highway and surface street infrastructure is just not designed for large crowds coming and going.

Downtown KC doesn't even have any major streets to collect and distribute traffic to and from the stadium like you have in Denver, ST Louis Baltimore, DC etc. In order for a downtown park to work in KC, you would need to spend a few hundred million on infrastructure improvements alone. Anyway, my point is that most people, even in very urban ballparks come from places that you have to drive from or take transit. The streetcar will help, but still most will drive. A VERY tiny percent of people gong to the game will be coming form people that live downtown or are staying in downtown hotels. You can see this in any city. Clev, Balt, DC, Sea, Toronto etc. Then you have Milwaukee which draws very well from a city smaller than KC without a downtown park. LA basically has a suburban park even though it's near downtown and they draw 50k a night. 99% of people that go to cards games are from the burbs. Baltimore, Pitts, Cleve all can barely get 10k on many nights with amazing downtown parks. Build it downtown, but don't expect it to change attendance much.

You still need a 35k seat park though or again, how do you even make the numbers work to be in the MLB in the first place. Got to be able to pull in those 35k crowds on fri and sat or during special games.

Only thing I disagree with is the STL comment. Nowhere near 99% come from the burbs. STL, Texas and Atlanta are the only mlb teams I have actual inside information on. STL games actually feature a solid percentage every game from out of town guest staying in downtown hotels. More so on the weekends of course. Big business attendance on weekdays as well.

Atlanta sees a big regular attendance from people living within 1 mile of the stadium. They average almost double the attendance of the royals.

Texas is a bit odd because it’s similar to KC’s current situation but does have the entertainment complex there and residential in the pipeline. Still somewhat Isolated from major residential.

[KC_JAYHAWK]

We don't want anything like Busch III. The Ballpark Village development has helped, but it's still surrounded by run down, crappy parking lots and parking garages built in the 1960s.

[shinatoo]

What % of downtown residents do you think will attend a Royals game downtown. If you want to fill a 35k seat stadium it will need to be 116% x 81 games. (I know, out of towners, conventioners and people working downtown will got too).

Personaly it think it will be a wash between the number that will attend because they don't have to drive and the number that won't because "OMG Parking and traffic".

First couple of years you will get a new venue bump.

It really is probably driven by corperate money. If they say they will by suites and sponserships they will build it downtown. Individual ticket holders aren't going to move the needle.