COVID19

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I spend some time on forums with right-leaning members. The amount of people who think COVID-19 is part of a conspiracy to control their lives and shift power to the radical left is staggering. I am starting to think of herd immunity in a different way, where a large enough percentage of our population becomes so directly affected that no one will be able to deny the severity of the problem any longer and people will finally start taking necessary precautions to control the spread. I predict my new definition of herd immunity will coincide with the old definition.

While I try my best to avoid any political aspect to these issues and view them objectively, the threat of civil liberty forfeiture is something I’ve been experiencing firsthand being stationed in Italy through this entire pandemic. While yes, I understand it’s a foreign government with a different set of civil liberties and a different societal ideology, it was absolutely terrifying to see the government so quickly, and so aggressively restrict the basic liberties of its citizens, and following the initial wave of lockdowns, release very little of the control they exercised. The general consensus I’ve come to is that once granted power, people very seldom like to give that power up. This is ever present at a micro scale, but has much mor stark implications on a macro. I don’t believe there is some long planned conspiracy behind this virus (unless we talk about the possibility of the Chinese Gov intentionally fumbling the response) but I absolutely believe certain leaders will abuse the powers they’ve been granted and infringe on basic rights. It is possible we lose those rights for good too, I mean look at the repercussions of 9/11...

[TheLastGentleman]

Huh.

[FangKC]

According to ABC News:

The USA now has 134,580 confirmed dead. 4,200 in the last 7 days.

In Texas, a 30-year-old man died after attending a COVID party to see if the virus was a hoax.

Disneyworld reopens with restrictions -- Attendance capped with mandatory masks.

President Trump seen wearing a mask for the first time at Walter Reed Military Hospital.

Ninety percent of all AZ ICUs at capacity. 3,500 hospitalized there.

[im2kull]

Fang, ABC is clearly not the best source of news with regards to Covid-19. Please stop repeating their totally idiotic headlines. This shouldn't be about sensationalism. Here's a few corrections and pointers for those ridiculous headlines;

Dr. Birx warns Americans to expect more deaths to come. Death rates surging in 17 states.

Deaths surging? Deaths per day are at the lowest they've been in months, and have been down for 3 consecutive days, and five of the last 7 now. We've experienced weeks and months of decreases. To say deaths are "Surging" is completely untrue.

Texas reports its deadliest day -- more than 10,000 new cases in one day.

More sensationalizing. "Deadliest day". Deadliest. Really? Why? Because they've had a boat load of new cases? Cool story. That's not deadly. If you speak of deaths, you must speak of deaths. Not new cases. Just ridiculous.

President Trump seen wearing a mask for the first time at Walter Reed Military Hospital.

First time *AT* Walter Reed, yes. Not his first time in a mask. LOL. Jeeze. This is laughable. Trump has been seen in a mask plenty. The Ford factory tour comes to mind. I'm not even a Trump fan, I voted for Bernie, but this is a complete waste of a headline. Talk about cherry picking and making something sound like something else by slipping in that "AT" while trying to convey "Trump seen wearing a mask for the first time". ABC is clearly not reputable.

Ninety percent of all AZ ICUs at capacity. 3,500 hospitalized there.

This has been explained before. The ICU capacity numbers are divided differently, but ultimately they have tons of capacity left. They're at 90% of their staging ICU beds, basically 20% overall.

[FangKC]

You are not sourcing anything to prove otherwise. Just catcalling from the cheap seats.

FangKC wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:46 pm
Dr. Birx warns Americans to expect more deaths to come. Death rates surging in 17 states.

The death rate may have gone down nationally--for now, but it is still increasing in 17 individual states.

Watch video:
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news ... s-71729330

Texas Hits New Record for Virus Deaths as Hospitals Scramble
Texas reported more than 100 deaths in a single day for the first time
In addition to 105 new deaths, Texas also reported a new high for hospitalizations for the 10th consecutive day and the rolling rate of positive tests inched closer to nearly 16% -- the highest in the pandemic yet.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas ... e/2403956/

It was the first time President Trump was seen wearing a mast on camera, so the public could see him. There is no point in him wearing a mask a couple of times off camera when you are the country's leader, and you should be setting an example. When he's making a point of refusing to wear masks in many places where he should be wearing them, it's news when he's seen on camera wearing one.

Coronavirus live updates: Trump wears mask in public for 1st time on visit to Walter Reed

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-l ... e_hero_hed

Your explanations of ICU capacity are charming. While hospitals do have other beds to house COVID patients, not just any hospital room is ideal for dealing with seriously-ill COVID patients. ICU rooms generally have one patient only--but if often depends on the facility. If a very ill patient is shedding COVID virus, it's not ideal to be in a shared room, or shared ward environment. ICU rooms have different ventilation air exchange setups to suck air out of the room through separate ventilation as not to spread virus through shared ventilation ducts. In addition, you don't want to put a COVID patient who's not in need of ICU in a shared room with a non-COVID patient with just a bad case of the flu and/or pneumonia, etc. for obvious reasons, or someone recovering from an accident. As hospitals run out of ICU rooms, they start housing COVID patients in non-ICU rooms that don't have the specialized air exchange systems that suck air out of the room--thus if there are two COVID patients shedding virus through exhaling you are putting hospital staff at risk--especially if they are short of supplies and wearing the same masks for multiple encounters. This is why COVID was spreading so fast among medical staff --- and making them ill -- in New York facilities.

ICU rooms are set up with all sorts of specialized equipment that an ordinary hospital room doesn't have. In addition, ICU staff are more highly-trained than staff in non-ICU floors. ICU nurses usually attend a much smaller number of patients than nurses in other areas.

Many hospital ICUs nationally are around 65 percent capacity during normal times--before COVID. Don't forget that. So in a hospital with 100 ICU beds, only 35 might be empty to deal with the influx of COVID patients.

U.S. hospitals reported operating 74,000 ICU beds in 2018, with 64% filled by patients on a typical day. But available ICU beds are not evenly distributed, according to an Associated Press analysis of federal data on hospitals that provided a cost report to Medicare in fiscal year 2018.

The AP found more than 7 million people age 60 and older — those most at risk of severe COVID-19 illness — live in counties without ICU beds. AP included ICU beds in coronary units, surgical units and burn units in the count.

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/governme ... -patients/

The funny thing about ICU rooms is that one can seem confident that there are plenty of beds available UNTIL there are not. Then we see people languishing in corridors, and tent hospitals being erected for overflow.

Hearing these second-hand accounts on here from medical staff in places that have yet to get hit hard are also foolhardy at best. When they get hit hard, they will change their tune. And one friend at a hospital network not having capacity problems tells us nothing. It depends on what network they work for. A public hospital with an emergency room (like Truman for example) is going to be accepting a lot more patients. Private hospital networks may or may not even accept many ER visits. Many network hospitals might accept an emergency only to stabilize and transfer that patient to another hospital if the patient's insurance isn't part of their network. Many hospitals don't have 24-hour trauma centers anyway.

It's very easy for an ER to get overrun by cases When the ER is full of COVID patients waiting for an ICU or non-ICU bed to open up, it can impact that ERs ability to accept patients with heart attacks, strokes, burns, or from car accidents.

I worked at four different medical centers in New York City, and nine years specifically at New York Presbyterian-Cornell Medical Center. They got hit hard and it got out of control very quickly. I talked to people I knew working in these hospitals, and it's not anything to get over-confident about.

You come across as kind of an asshole btw.

[earthling]

According to this source using official state data, national deaths are rising a bit in last week but maybe not 'surging' yet...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/



For some states, it may not be sensationalized to say deaths are surging...







In some states like Georgia, cases have 'surged' for weeks but deaths haven't yet...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/georgia/

Missouri also not rising in deaths yet despite rise in cases...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/missouri/

Of course the latter is expected if the rise in cases mostly healthy/young people.

[longviewmo]

My $0.02:

Normalizing death is shitty, no matter what type of spin you want to put on it. For the people somehow still yelling about Benghazi, this virus and our lack of response to it has already killed magnitudes higher of our service members and vets. Even catching the virus would amount to a casualty for a few weeks. I don’t see how we come out stronger for not wearing masks, all it does is show our actual enemies how easy it is to divide people and even get them to take actions close to shooting themselves in the foot.

[TheLastGentleman]

My $0.02:

Normalizing death is shitty, no matter what type of spin you want to put on it. For the people somehow still yelling about Benghazi, this virus and our lack of response to it has already killed magnitudes higher of our service members and vets. Even catching the virus would amount to a casualty for a few weeks. I don’t see how we come out stronger for not wearing masks, all it does is show our actual enemies how easy it is to divide people and even get them to take actions close to shooting themselves in the foot.

But you're restricting my freedom to kill people through negligence.

[earthling]

As mentioned, given regular masks are generally more effective at preventing spreading than preventing personally getting infected, not wearing a mask is obviously about lack of consideration for others. When I run across those caught up in 'freedom from masks' ideology, I ask them if they are OK with smoking indoors with no lack of consideration for others or yelling fire in a theater. There are reasonable limits to 'freedom' and apparently many literally don't have much concept of consideration for others or being reasonable, especially if it's an inconvenience for them.

[Highlander]

According to this source using official state data, national deaths are rising a bit in last week but maybe not 'surging' yet...

Of course the latter is expected if the rise in cases mostly healthy/young people.

Unfortunately, I think we will see a surge in deaths in the coming week. World-o-Meter generally reports very low death rates on Sunday's and we are closing in on 400 for today. You have to go back to the first week of June to see that high of a death toll on a Sunday. This week showed a definite upswing in deaths and I suspect that will continue into next week as the lag time relative to cases starts to take effect.

I think the lag time is a bit longer in this second "surge" because the vulnerable were not caught off guard like they were in Washington State early on and the NE US. Regardless, the sheer number of new cases, even if the majority is unaffected younger people, will push the virus to the more vulnerable people in the country. So many people now have the virus it will be difficult for all but the most vigilant of the higher risk population to avoid contact with infected people. Those that eschew masks in public only make it worse for all.

[FangKC]

According to ABC News:

Twelve states reporting a record number of new cases for those states.

Florida reporting more than 15,300 new cases in one day--a single day record in the USA.

Houston's mayor is proposing a 2-week shutdown there.

Arizona's ICU beds are at 90 percent capacity.

More than 1,200 people died in California this weekend from COVID.

In LA County, the Latino community has been found to be twice a likely to become infected than whites, and also more than twice as likely to die. More crowded living conditions, and higher rates of underlying health conditions, among that community are cited as the cause.

[FangKC]

A couple of other points. The reason we saw the drastic surge in New York is because people were widely unaware of the risk, and how bad this virus could be. Thus, a lot of people were caught off guard--especially seniors and vulnerable people. By the time they practiced caution, they were probably already infected. For example, seniors doing grocery shopping or attending church.

The surge in cases like Florida, Texas, and Arizona are of concern because this is no longer the case. We've had months of reportage about the virus, and how to protect oneself, avoid getting it, and transmitting it. Thus virus is spreading simply because many people aren't taking it seriously and some are willfully disregarding public health advice.

Months into this spread, there still is not enough testing available in many places. I've seen health care officials say that it's probably useless to do contract tracing at this point in hot spots because the virus is already too widespread.

[earthling]

^According to some virus experts, one reason the South is now seeing a surge of cases is due more people indoors because it's now much hotter than pleasant winter weather. And that AC may be circulating virus indoors. Mask wearing per area also a factor but probably not as effective when everyone isn't mandated to wear one.

[brewcrew1000]

Is the US really the only place that is so AC obessed? In Europe its pretty rare to even find AC units

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Is the US really the only place that is so AC obessed? In Europe its pretty rare to even find AC units

Spain and Italy have it fairly commonplace, and anywhere further south than that will also have it. Germany is starting to adopt it more as well, as summers have been getting hotter there recently

[brewcrew1000]

Is the US really the only place that is so AC obessed? In Europe its pretty rare to even find AC units

Spain and Italy have it fairly commonplace, and anywhere further south than that will also have it. Germany is starting to adopt it more as well, as summers have been getting hotter there recently

Even at restaurants nobody is really eating inside which helps a ton, nobody ate inside unless the place was really crowded, everyone wanted to be outside

[FangKC]

According to ABC News:

Infections now rising in 32 states in the last 24 hours; 23 states have seen increases in their state's death rates in the last 24 hours.

Officials say they estimate one out of every 100 Americans has tested positive for COVID since the epidemic started.

California is shutting down many indoor businesses -- reversing the state's reopening plans. Los Angeles and San Diego schools will not reopen in the fall and will continue with distance learning.

Today there were 12,000 new cases in Florida--after yesterday's 15,000 cases. There have been 4,200 dealths in Florida so far.

In Texas, there were 5,600 new cases in the last 24 hours. The Texas governor is pleading with his state's residents to wear masks.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says we aren't doing great in the USA battling the epidemic, and the pandemic is far from over; says he hasn't personally briefed the president in two months.

[FangKC]

[beermestrength]

I would like to see the actual numbers. MSNBC presents data for a left political spin. Fox News does the same thing just the other way. Would be nice if media would just give us the actual numbers and let us use our brains. And before anyone on the left or right tries to start an argument, I'm not on a "side" so you're wasting your breath

Just wish everyone understood both "sides" have severe flaws.

[horizons82]

I would like to see the actual numbers. MSNBC presents data for a left political spin. Fox News does the same thing just the other way.

This is the bad take and softens how destructive Fox News is. You can dislike MSNBC, but don’t pretend they and Fox News are different sides of the same coin. The morning show host of MSNBC is a former republican congressman. Nicole Wallace, a Bush Comms Director, also has her own MSNBC show. Andrea Mitchell, another host, is married to Alan Greenspan!