East-West Transit Options Built into Streetcar Spine

[DaveKCMO]

STL spends about three times what the KC region spends on transit each year... and that’s not even a big capital program.

[Chris Stritzel]

Yes. Every week I hear more and more suburban folks try, love, and want more of the streetcar. Since the last city wide rail vote, almost everything has changed - downtown is alive again, the streetcar opened and is successful, MAX lines to the east side have been constructed, and suburbs are building dense cores (ex. Overland Park). We have actual dense clusters to connect downtown with now! Everything has changed since the last vote imho.

However, it’s going to take a devoted/passionate group of people to lead the charge and money. We don’t really have that now - not a bad thing per say, just a different goal as Dave said. Buses only has some benefits on expanding coverage and service but I think bus only isn’t the right solution neither is train only.

I think people in the surrounding area around KC should be polled about wanting to get involved with potentially having a streetcar extension to their part of the region. If they love it, then pitch the idea to them to have their very own line coming to their neighborhoods. They'd probably cringe at the idea but many may embrace it enough to where the approval of a tax to fund a line is doable. You'd probably be surprised what showing off can do to change the opinions of people.

STL has waisted a lot of money on building a cadillac rail system (many miles, long underground segments, long elevetaed stretches, etc) that could have been used on extending bus coverage and service. Many miles of their service follow highways and farm fields while close to none traverses areas near STL-MO’s transit low income/dependent populations. In the past few years they approved funding for a North-South Lightrail (funding turned on and bank account filling) through areas where a BRT would be more then enough service. Service isn’t great, TOD has never reallly happened (some more recently), and the system is deteriorating now.

STL Metro is all over the place in literally every category, especially with their funding and priorities. They don't invest where it's needed. The subway infrastructure needs to be overhauled since it's showing it's age and instead, Metro has been spending more money on getting new busses and bus stop signs instead of fixing up the subway stations. Many need a deep cleaning to stop smelling like piss and marijuana. They're also still paying off massive amounts of debt from the construction of the Blue (cross county extension) line.

In addition to funding, there has been money building up for 2 MetroLink expansion routes. First, Prop A was from 2010 and that was to fund transit in the County along with a new line from Clayton to Westport Plaza branching off from the Blue line in Clayton. That was a county vote. Second, Prop 1 was passed in 2017 in the City to fund North-South. The problem with both of these lines are the chosen alignments. For the Westport line, it runs through a majority industrial area on the way to Westport in a car centric part of the County. North-South runs from a dying part of North City to an increasingly dangerous part of the Southside. North-South should honestly run from Old North to the City's edge via West Florissant, Tucker (12th) and Gravois. That would be a better suited line and would drive more investment. The red line is currently set to be extended to the dead Mid America Airport from it's current terminus at Scott Air Force base in Illinois. This is mostly being backed by the State of Illinois but it seems like a huge waste of money since this will really run through just corn fields.

In regards to TOD, bi-state has been pushing for TOD around their stations quite a bit recently. On the Missouri side of the river, 3 TOD projects were proposed recently on bi-state owned property. There's the UMSL South TOD, North Hanley senior apartments, and the Forest Park Debaliviere TOD. These 3 will drastically alter their respective areas and hopefully open the door to a car optional living environment for future residents. In recent years, TOD has sprouted up at the Sunnen Station MetroLink stop with some apartments and in Illinois, the Swansea stop got a senior apartment project. In reality, it's been roughly 37 years since the MetroLink began service that TOD started to pop up along the route. Bi-state never makes money off of these deals since they remain almost fully involved. They get some money, but not much to reinvest into the system. That's compared to the Streetcar in KC where TOD projects are starting to be proposed along the future extension line and along the existing route in the 4 years since the Streetcar open. The Streetcar also gets money out of this so it's a win-win. STL Metro is not a win by any means.

Finally, BRT could be a very wise investment no matter what city you go into. STL or KC, it's pretty cheap to implement and operate. Have frequent service and many people will feel obliged to take the BRT instead of driving. This could eventually lead to a study to lay the groundwork for a future streetcar or light rail line.

[normalthings]

STL spends about three times what the KC region spends on transit each year... and that’s not even a big capital program.

Much of it a waste imho. Anyways do you know what mechanisms they use?

[FangKC]

I can't imagine a streetcar down Independence Avenue in the next 50 years. The downtown streetcar is regularly mocked by many who live in the neighborhoods along Independence -- both by the neighborhood paper and on social media. I really doubt residents would ever vote to tax themselves to extend it down Independence Avenue.

[shinatoo]

Just thinking the other day. If we were to extend the existing streetcar any further south it seams like it would be better to head east at UMKC and then south along Troost. Center running on Troost seams like it would be much easier, more beneficial, and politically palatable, than trying to navigate the pushback of taking out the Trolley trail.

[DaveKCMO]

Just thinking the other day. If we were to extend the existing streetcar any further south it seams like it would be better to head east at UMKC and then south along Troost. Center running on Troost seams like it would be much easier, more beneficial, and politically palatable, than trying to navigate the pushback of taking out the Trolley trail.

I love your optimism on center running!

Agreed. We will never get past that section of homeowners. Best to go south on Troost, if we ever make it further than 51st.

[flyingember]

I can't imagine a streetcar down Independence Avenue in the next 50 years. The downtown streetcar is regularly mocked by many who live in the neighborhoods along Independence -- both by the neighborhood paper and on social media. I really doubt residents would ever vote to tax themselves to extend it down Independence Avenue.

In the 2014 election the *only* east side neighborhoods that voted majority for the streetcar lived in the precincts directly along where it would have run

[alejandro46]

When studied during the original streetcar route alignment survey, I believe Independence ave rated second highest for streetcar potential behind Main, (ridership and development) and I believe 63rd/Linwood also scored high for development but low for ridership, due to the dilapidated nature of the area. Indep. ave has one of the highest ridership of bus lines in the *city* I mean (not nation). Combine a streetcar + Buck O'Neil bridge relocation + 9hwy leveling to at grade + making Indep. Ave continuous and removing the North Loop all together, you really get a unified project that could have a monumental positive impact on the area for the next 100 years (and that could score some maybe score Federal funding).

[DaveKCMO]

When studied during the original streetcar route alignment survey, I believe Independence ave rated second highest for streetcar potential behind Main, (ridership and development) and I believe 63rd/Linwood also scored high for development but low for ridership, due to the dilapidated nature of the area. Indep. ave has one of the highest ridership of bus lines in the nation. Combine a streetcar + Buck O'Neil bridge relocation + 9hwy leveling to at grade + making Indep. Ave continuous and removing the North Loop all together, you really get a unified project that could have a monumental positive impact on the area for the next 100 years (and that could score some maybe score Federal funding).

Here's the full report: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1_a3 ... sp=sharing