Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9190
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

earthling wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Though churches are dying along with certain traditional retail as fewer identify as religious. KC went from 10% non-religious identity 20 years ago to near 25% today. Even higher % may identify with a religion but not a church goer. Dying churches can't afford to keep up with high maintenance of old buildings. But it could be repurposed into something else as is common with Euro churches. If no one steps up to fund the maintenance, is not surprising a developer knocks it down given the prime location.
I'd love to see re-purposing of the church rather than it's removal. It's one of the more aesthetically pleasing corners on 47th street.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4935
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes »

earthling wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:07 pm
KC went from 10% non-religious identity 20 years ago to near 25% today. Even higher % may identify with a religion but not a church goer.
Any business would love to have a market where 75% of the population considered themselves a customer and 25% were a regular buyer.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14476
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by FangKC »

We need to educate the upcoming generation that there is rarely a good reason to tear down any building. Everything should be re-used, or designed to be re-used. Sure, there are exceptions like after fires, etc. The only reason it's cheaper to demolish and rebuild is because we don't have a carbon tax.

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:43 pm
earthling wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:07 pm
KC went from 10% non-religious identity 20 years ago to near 25% today. Even higher % may identify with a religion but not a church goer.
Any business would love to have a market where 75% of the population considered themselves a customer and 25% were a regular buyer.
Not following your analogy. The demand for that kind of space is ultimately shrinking as its user base shrinks (more supply than demand) and it's expensive to maintain. If no one steps up to repurpose...

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4935
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes »

earthling wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:20 am
Not following your analogy. The demand for that kind of space is ultimately shrinking as its user base shrinks (more supply than demand) and it's expensive to maintain. If no one steps up to repurpose...
You said 25% consider themselves non-religious. That means 75% in our community do consider themselves religious. That’s a very large number of people and reflects that there should be strong demand for religious services in a market sense. Churches can be a good neighborhood entity and should be used as another tool to renew the neighborhood feel of the Plaza instead of tearing down or repurposing the buildings.

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

Actually it's 75% who have a religious identity, not religiously active (probably around 45% or so, US avg). But it used to be 90% and the existing supply of church space accommodated a much larger base. The demand is shrinking (consistently every year) and there is a surplus of supply in space. And many are shifting to strip malls, cheaper to rent than to maintain money pit buildings, and this congregation implied this building is essentially a money pit.

Am all for repurposing it but someone needs to step up to pay for maintaining a high maintenance building. The congregation is apparently shrinking, not able to pull it off.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4935
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes »

earthling wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:19 am
Am all for repurposing it but someone needs to step up to pay for maintaining a high maintenance building. The congregation is apparently shrinking, not able to pull it off.
So, if the church hasn’t maintained the congregation to cover the expense, they should donate it. Many, many years ago, families donated to build that church with a specific purpose. There are congregations in the area running three full services that could benefit from that space and would immediately bring traffic back to the Plaza.

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

They sold it to the developer in exchange for renting space within the new building if I recall. Talk to them.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4935
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by beautyfromashes »

earthling wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:53 am
They sold it to the developer in exchange for renting space within the new building if I recall. Talk to them.
Shameful.

...and probably a good reason that church membership has dropped in many cases. Charity and realization of the sacrifice of previous generations for common purpose has been a traditional message of religion that is missing in many groups today.

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8074
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by flyingember »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:11 am
earthling wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:53 am
They sold it to the developer in exchange for renting space within the new building if I recall. Talk to them.
Shameful.

...and probably a good reason that church membership has dropped in many cases. Charity and realization of the sacrifice of previous generations for common purpose has been a traditional message of religion that is missing in many groups today.
Yep. You can have a religious service literally anywhere and put on a mission that does more charity and less building upkeep. There's plenty of churches that do well opening up inside strip malls.

User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2813
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Midtownkid »

Is Tesla moving or remodeling? Sign in down. Windows are black

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8074
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by flyingember »

Midtownkid wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:03 pm
Is Tesla moving or remodeling? Sign in down. Windows are black
Their website doesn't show a location in Missouri or Kansas

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United+States

mgsports
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2894
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by mgsports »

Stateline and 103rd.

User avatar
Steve52
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Steve52 »

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The realty group that manages the Country Club Plaza will be purchased by another property group, according to a press release.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/co ... erty-group

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

They operate a lot of strip malls and outlet centers. Likely not an improvement.

User avatar
WSPanic
Supporter
Posts: 3769
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by WSPanic »

earthling wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:59 am
They operate a lot of strip malls and outlet centers. Likely not an improvement.
Their brochure features a lot of centers with Nordstrom, Nieman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Saks, etc. Seems like they have plenty of comparable developments - The Forum shops at Caesers is pretty high end and notable.

I have no idea what this means for The Plaza, but it's not like they own bunch Ranchmarts (no offense) and nothing else.

longviewmo
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Manhattan, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by longviewmo »

They also defaulted on Independence Center when they owned it?

User avatar
WSPanic
Supporter
Posts: 3769
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by WSPanic »

longviewmo wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:58 pm
They also defaulted on Independence Center when they owned it?
That does look to be the case.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1318
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Good sign.

User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by smh »

Also own the Battlefield Mall. The choicest shopping venue in Springfield, MO.

:-|

Post Reply