Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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alejandro46
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by alejandro46 »

A baseball field would be very disruptive to the neighborhoods near Midtown Marketplace. If Hyde Park Neighborhood Association get peeved about some multi-family residential with low parking, how would they feel about a Major Legaue baseball park, and all the fans, noise, and wayward homeruns?

I think the only realistic option is the East Village, and I prefer to leave the K as-is and run transit to it. But we will see what the new ownership thinks. I think there is minimal appetite for more tax breaks for a new stadium, especially whatever the Royals get the Chiefs will want something similar.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by FangKC »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?

Image
There are two underground water storage reservoirs at the Turkey Creek Pumping Station abpve that send water to residents in South Kansas City.

If a stadium is built there, the reservoirs and pumping station need to be relocated and rebuilt somewhere else.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm

I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?
If you like tearing out affordable housing, sure.

The grassy spot is maybe 1/3 the land needed for a stadium
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

Telling you guys. This is the best spot.

1. Repurposes underused and difficult parkland.
2. Close to public transportation.
3. Unprecedented city views.
4. Doesn't eat up prime development land for a seasonal use.
5. Solid NE orientation.

Image

And it's already a ballfield!
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by ToDactivist »

shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am Telling you guys. This is the best spot.

1. Repurposes underused and difficult parkland.
2. Close to public transportation.
3. Unprecedented city views.
4. Doesn't eat up prime development land for a seasonal use.
5. Solid NE orientation.

Image

And it's already a ballfield!
well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

Just doing some quick calc and it's about a mile to everything by foot. Boulevard Brewery, Jack Stack, East 31st, Linwood Plaza. About the same walk as Kauffman to Adams Mark.

It would probably do more for Midtown than Downtown. Certainly would do a lot to bring them together. Kind of a hub point for Crossroads, Crown Center, Midtown and Westside.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by alejandro46 »

well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.
I could see that working if we were OK re-locating the Pioneer Mother statute there for a parking garage. That southern portion bordering 29th seems to be the only feasible other parcel for new structured parking. Kessler Rd. would be re-located to align directly into a new roundabout at the end of Liberty Memorial Mall and likely widened for the increased traffic.

I have visited the liberty memorial before and seen lots of people using those ball fields for summer rec leagues.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by ToDactivist »

alejandro46 wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm
well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.
I could see that working if we were OK re-locating the Pioneer Mother statute there for a parking garage. That southern portion bordering 29th seems to be the only feasible other parcel for new structured parking. Kessler Rd. would be re-located to align directly into a new roundabout at the end of Liberty Memorial Mall and likely widened for the increased traffic.

I have visited the liberty memorial before and seen lots of people using those ball fields for summer rec leagues.
perhaps try to get away from thinking there always has to be new parking garages regardless of where this ship lands. Use what is readily available. Denver didnt build ANY new garages for the ballpark and only had 1-2 smallish surface lots. Rest was re-purposed from nearby offices, civic, etc. Here you already have massive garages at Crown Center + IRS + Fed Reserve + Union Station + bushwhacking.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

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ToDactivist wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:19 pm
perhaps try to get away from thinking there always has to be new parking garages regardless of where this ship lands. Use what is readily available. Denver didnt build ANY new garages for the ballpark and only had 1-2 smallish surface lots. Rest was re-purposed from nearby offices, civic, etc. Here you already have massive garages at Crown Center + IRS + Fed Reserve + Union Station + bushwhacking.
Are you seriously saying that the IRS and Federal Reserve would give up parking for a baseball game? That's laughable. The IRS garage is below their office space, they'll never open it to the public and both those garages have the raised angled barriers blocking access without a card.

As for the rest, you need to think about the 2pm games. When those garages are effectively full. Children's Mercy leases space in Crown Center, parking is at such a premium to the east.

And the Union Station garage is heavily used by the feds as well for the post office. It might be 1/3 reserved parking.

Sure, could find some spots in existing garages but any stadium is going to be a large walking zone from on street parking more than anything with private businesses building garages nearby.

It's dramatically better to not think about where people will park and to locate the stadium in a way no one cares. And remember the streetcar isn't enough to support that. At every 12 a train comes by five times an hour. To move 10,000 people would take 12 hours. Parking and walking will be the most common thing so it will end up where there's lots of under utilized parking around.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

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shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
Agreed I doubt Fed(s) open up their garages. just making a point to avoid a "parking structure". Also agree minimal afternoon home games and gee, how does this work in Denver, as noted? Execs walk. Garages raise rates. Market takes care of itself.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
In 2019, 12% of home games were weekday day. They're not going to be heavy attendance games but think of how many people still go then, a couple thousand cars is still a lot of spots to find

You also forget that the places mentioned are also open on weekends. For example, there's parts of Crown Center parking that's used by the hotels too. Union Station is open until midnight and is reasonably well used on weekends.


Best to locate in the east village an people walk 5-6 blocks over from the P&L parking we have in excess and the dramatically under used on street parking in Paseo West. It also doesn't put game day car traffic on Main, one of only a few ways to the site , which will make the streetcar unusable.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

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flyingember wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:37 pm
shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
In 2019, 12% of home games were weekday day. They're not going to be heavy attendance games but think of how many people still go then, a couple thousand cars is still a lot of spots to find

You also forget that the places mentioned are also open on weekends. For example, there's parts of Crown Center parking that's used by the hotels too. Union Station is open until midnight and is reasonably well used on weekends.


Best to locate in the east village an people walk 5-6 blocks over from the P&L parking we have in excess and the dramatically under used on street parking in Paseo West. It also doesn't put game day car traffic on Main, one of only a few ways to the site , which will make the streetcar unusable.
We all have our favorites. Mine is North Loop (stop) but east of Main on ULI-endorsed removal or I-70. Thinkin big but also thinking transit and ingress and amenities and the ballpark site/design mantra...
Plan the Right Capacity for the Market – site criteria article

• Locate Contiguous to Promising Districts
• Take Advantage of Landmarks & Civic Treasures
• Choose a Location Oriented Toward Transit
• Plan with Respect for the Street Grid
• Allow Circulation, Ancillary Uses Outside Footprint
• Orient to Connect with Urban Conditions
• Disperse Parking Off-Site
• Master Plan for Collateral Development
• Plan to Maximize Attendance and Revenue
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Rabble »

It seems like the two rules, of any open air downtown ballpark, is that it can't face west because of the sun, and it needs a downtown skyline view beyond its outfield fences. The only exceptions I can find is Denver's facing the Rockies, San Fran's facing the bay and Cincinnati's facing the Ohio river. I don't see how a ballpark in either the north loop or the east village can have much of a view without facing the afternoon sun.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

Looking at the past 30 years of stadiums I found ten that don't purposefully have a downtown view.

San Francisco, Denver and Cincinnati as you mention

Atlanta doesn't have a view of downtown. It's KC equivalent would be a view of College Blvd

Both stadiums in NYC face away from Manhattan and Brooklyn. Sure, Yankee Stadium faces The Bronx but The Mets stadium doesn't face much of anything

Milawukee doesn't face downtown

DC isn't tall but it's turned away from any major sight there

Arlington is far away from either downtown and there's a giant wall blocking the view

The White Sox faces away from downtown
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Rabble »

I'm talking about the ones that are in downtown.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Rabble »

Also, I'm talking about non-retractable roof-open-air-downtown ballparks. I assume when a retractable roof is open you get a view of the sky and the retracted retractable roof.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by longviewmo »

shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
There's plenty of year-round employees at the IRS. No way those open up.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

longviewmo wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:13 pm
shinatoo wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.
There's plenty of year-round employees at the IRS. No way those open up.
I was under the impression the permanent employees were in the tower and they mothballed the warehouses in the off season.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

The warehouse is a small part of the complex.

Sure, they run lighter on employees but given there's an October 15 deadline from extensions they're going to be doing processing year round

Regardless, there's no chance a government agency would open up their parking garage for the first half of the season. The first home game is late March/early April and the IRS doesn't finish seasonal layoffs until the end of June. They run overnight shifts so they're using the garage during night games.
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