Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
User avatar
rokhok
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:38 pm
Location: Crossroads

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by rokhok »

JFC dude.. why the hostility and looking down your nose at me? You could have easily registered your opinions and objections in a respectful way.. yet chose to be hostile as if my post was an affront... such a problem in our country these days... anyone who doesn't agree 100% with what I believe is 100% wrong.... you wanna try again?

A few comments on your comments:

1) Fully understand we can't build enough entertainment close for all and agree that would not even be desirable. However, having attended games at many great and not so great DT stadiums.. the ones that have some degree of "close" entertainment are immeasurably seen as being better. So any plan should leave some space for such things and not have the stadium surrounded by completely unrelated businesses / infrastructure.

2) East Loop comment wasn't about how much parking it would hold but how easy it would be to use given that there are not many buildings. I would expect little to no surface parking near the stadium.. way too inefficient.

3) Destruction - if the criteria for a new stadium is to not tear down anything currently standing.. might as well leave it where it stands. I think it is always a balance....

4) Other side of 18th... picked this side for continuity between DT, CR and 18/V thats all... I don't see a lot of residential there currently.. am I wrong?

5) Hiway Access - realistically we will have to have a way for thousands of cars to get to highways no matter where. the faster they get off city streets the less the local impact. I 100% agree that today I-35 access is not optimal.. but changing that can and likely would be of any DT plan.


flyingember wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:36 pm
rokhok wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:31 am I have been staring at google maps on this too much... LOL.... the problem I see with East Loop for a project this large is that it is not just the stadium... you will also want space around the stadium for entertainment... bars, food, etc. and east loop has lots of parking lots that could be used for the stadium but then the area is blocked from the rest of DT by the gov bldg comlplex. Not ideal in my opinion.

There's no way we can build enough entertainment next to the stadium to support even 10% of capacity

Let's not care if there's bars around the site or not and instead support all of downtown by scattering thousands of customers among dozens of blocks of businesses.

Unless there's parking for 10,000 cars right next to it most people will need to leave the immediate area by foot, bus and train which makes it easy for them to go elsewhere.

Also, the east loop parking lots would only hold a couple thousand people.
That leaves looking south / or southeast of the loop:

1) East Crossroads (Cherry, Truman, US-71 and 18th) -

Advantages: Relative low density currently; connects CR to 18th/V; option for future east/west streetcar line; plenty of infill area for close amenities; highway access.

Disads: Ideal stadium orientation would not show of DT skyline (might have to use less ideal); US 71 side would be hard barrier to development.
What's with all the destruction? You don't like how many bars we can place on empty land so let's tear down dozens of buildings instead
2) Crossroads to Jazz (US-71, Truman, 18th and Paseo)

Advantages: much the same as above but a little closer to 18/V and further from CR. Would make Paseo more relevant; close to DT Baseball Academy

Disads: Mostly same as above, Would have to relocate bus depot and tech college/ school
It's funny you would pick this site when the other side of 18th would be much easier to kick people out of.
3) Westside (Cesar Chavez, Madison, 20th, and I-35)

Advantages: Perfect Stadium Orientation. Coutours of elevation are potentially well suited; Makes SW Blvd more connected / better development. Highway access. Potential mass transit bi-state along SW Blvd

Disads: would displace homes / neighborhood... doesnt help eastside.. farther from streetcar
Hiway access? You're crazy, this neighborhood is really hard to get to from I-35. That's not bad from a neighborhood point of view but you're talking about a site which would create traffic like nothing else when we're talking about 10,000+ cars all at once.
4) Crossroads West (19th, Broadway, 17th, Wyandotte)

Advantages: Ideal location for infill / best for current hotels / bars / food; close to streetcar; would have continuity with other large features like convention center, performing arts center; would activate this section of Broadway

Disads: potentially tight fit; would displace some crossroads blds (maybe some historic), off highway (may not matter)
Yeah, this won't happen. It would block the Kauffman Center view of Union Station.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

rokhok wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:46 pm JFC dude.. why the hostility and looking down your nose at me? You could have easily registered your opinions and objections in a respectful way.. yet chose to be hostile as if my post was an affront... such a problem in our country these days... anyone who doesn't agree 100% with what I believe is 100% wrong.... you wanna try again?
You should stop posting here if you have such thin skin as to think any of that was hostile.
User avatar
rokhok
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:38 pm
Location: Crossroads

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by rokhok »

Wow! Even more hostility. I was not the only one to notice, dude....
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

rokhok wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:16 am Wow! Even more hostility. I was not the only one to notice, dude....
I really don't know what to say, you're clearly adding your own emotion into the text.
User avatar
rokhok
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:38 pm
Location: Crossroads

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by rokhok »

flyingember wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:46 am
rokhok wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:16 am Wow! Even more hostility. I was not the only one to notice, dude....
I really don't know what to say, you're clearly adding your own emotion into the text.
Then maybe we can get back to just a healthy discussion....
User avatar
MizzouMadeKC
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Location: Midtown KC
Contact:

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by MizzouMadeKC »

Yes. Royals Stadium in the 1970s and 1980s was gorgeous. The remodeled K is a desperate attempt to make baseball more appealing while increasing revenue. Downtown doesn’t need the Royals, but the Royals might need Downtown.
User avatar
ToDactivist
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by ToDactivist »

MizzouMadeKC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm Yes. Royals Stadium in the 1970s and 1980s was gorgeous. The remodeled K is a desperate attempt to make baseball more appealing while increasing revenue. Downtown doesn’t need the Royals, but the Royals might need Downtown.
Agreed on that comment...not sure anyone would attend a CO Rockies game if in Aurora. No, I'm positive no one would.
User avatar
StL_Dan
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3661
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Olathe via St Louis

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by StL_Dan »

MizzouMadeKC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm Yes. Royals Stadium in the 1970s and 1980s was gorgeous. The remodeled K is a desperate attempt to make baseball more appealing while increasing revenue. Downtown doesn’t need the Royals, but the Royals might need Downtown.
The re-modeled K does have a lot of unnecessary fluff, esp beyond the outfield seats. Nonetheless, inside the walls, the stadium is so much better and less sterile than it was before the reno. For instance, adding OF seats in the power alleys alone elevated the stadium by light years. I love how the K kept the SRO areas immediately behind the RF corner seats, though. Great place to hang out with friends while grabbing a drink or eat and not miss any of the action.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by chaglang »

We were at the Nelson this weekend and every time I’m there I’m delighted at how a Claus bleeping Oldenburg sculpture has become a symbol for the whole city. The side effect of decades of mediocre sports has forced KC to find its identity in other places. I hope KC keeps that mentality. The Royals need downtown more than downtown needs the Royals.
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by chaglang »

Everything’s up to date in Wichita.
User avatar
Steve52
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Steve52 »

Everyone knows everything there is to know about Kansas City except how to enjoy it. Very interesting. enriching, and intellectually stimulating and enlightening approach.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

ToDactivist wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 am
MizzouMadeKC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm Yes. Royals Stadium in the 1970s and 1980s was gorgeous. The remodeled K is a desperate attempt to make baseball more appealing while increasing revenue. Downtown doesn’t need the Royals, but the Royals might need Downtown.
Agreed on that comment...not sure anyone would attend a CO Rockies game if in Aurora. No, I'm positive no one would.
I wouldn't be so sure of that

Atlanta moved their stadium into the suburbs for the 2017 season. It's only three years, but their attendence has hardly change if any.
User avatar
TrolliKC
Supporter
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:27 am

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TrolliKC »

Way to go Wichita Baby Cakes
longviewmo
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Manhattan, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by longviewmo »

There's decent bike infrastructure right at the stadium so I think they might be fairly successful. There's a signed bike route immediately west, and to the east both sides of the river are multi-use paths. They already do a bike valet for riverfest every year which is directly across the river.
Rabble
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Rabble »

Just finished Paul Goldberger's new book, Ballpark. A nice history of baseball parks, from the wood structures of 19th century, through the concrete donuts of my childhood to the retros of today, and how they related to the American city. Three takeaways:
1. Goldberger is an excellent writer of both architecture and city design. His 40 year old book about Manhattan, The City Observed, is still the best book written about NYC buildings and neighborhoods. His website says an updated version coming out soon!
2. HOK, now Populous, originally wanted to pluck down a retread of Royal stadium, in downtown Baltimore, much like they did in the south side of Chicago with the new Comiskey. It was a bunch of non-architects that forced them to study the existing city, study what makes a great ballpark, and helped them design Camden Yards. I'm sure Populous is grateful for that help.
3. I've always hoped KC would avoid a downtown ballpark. The ones I've seen give their cities a George F. Babbitt-amusement park quality. But Goldberger points out that the best, Baltimore along with Cleveland, Pittsburgh and San Francisco, improve their cities by how they integrate into existing neighborhoods and their mass transit. I hope Populous designs us something on this level, but for them to do that, I believe they need a more inspired location than the east village.
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Rabble wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:56 am Just finished Paul Goldberger's new book, Ballpark. A nice history of baseball parks, from the wood structures of 19th century, through the concrete donuts of my childhood to the retros of today, and how they related to the American city. Three takeaways:
1. Goldberger is an excellent writer of both architecture and city design. His 40 year old book about Manhattan, The City Observed, is still the best book written about NYC buildings and neighborhoods. His website says an updated version coming out soon!
2. HOK, now Populous, originally wanted to pluck down a retread of Royal stadium, in downtown Baltimore, much like they did in the south side of Chicago with the new Comiskey. It was a bunch of non-architects that forced them to study the existing city, study what makes a great ballpark, and helped them design Camden Yards. I'm sure Populous is grateful for that help.
3. I've always hoped KC would avoid a downtown ballpark. The ones I've seen give their cities a George F. Babbitt-amusement park quality. But Goldberger points out that the best, Baltimore along with Cleveland, Pittsburgh and San Francisco, improve their cities by how they integrate into existing neighborhoods and their mass transit. I hope Populous designs us something on this level, but for them to do that, I believe they need a more inspired location than the east village.
I have quoted this post over in the book recommendations thread.

I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?

Image
Rabble
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by Rabble »

That is close to one of rokhok's suggestions last week. A long way from the streetcar. How about replacing the Midtown Market Place with a ballpark? Get rid of two suburban boxes and a sea of parking. Has the Glover plan served it's purpose?
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Rabble wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:48 pmHow about replacing the Midtown Market Place with a ballpark? Get rid of two suburban boxes and a sea of parking. Has the Glover plan served it's purpose?
That’s a much better plan. Perhaps that could be a good opportunity to dismantle the KCPT tower.
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by WoodDraw »

The problem is that the sea of parking will just expand and probably stop future development around the area.
Post Reply