KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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TheLastGentleman
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by TheLastGentleman » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:07 pm

kboish wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:33 pm
"I'm all for taking money away from the streetcar. That is the budget line item I hate the most." It was hard to tell from Ch 2 what the reaction from the rest of the council was, but Loar (T&I Chair) was certainly nodding her head vigorously.
Yikes

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by ToDactivist » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:38 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:15 pm
I wonder if there is extra funds in the DT streetcar district due to rapidly growing sales tax receipts and property tax value growth? If this extra money can be used for free buses while also keeping the streetcar free and updated, that might make sense, though it seems that money should go back to the residents who are paying extra.
"Rapidly growing" might be a stretch. Outside of legacy P&L there are barely noticeable additions. CBD needs ongoing love and the streetcar is integral.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by beautyfromashes » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:27 pm

ToDactivist wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:38 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:15 pm
I wonder if there is extra funds in the DT streetcar district due to rapidly growing sales tax receipts and property tax value growth? If this extra money can be used for free buses while also keeping the streetcar free and updated, that might make sense, though it seems that money should go back to the residents who are paying extra.
"Rapidly growing" might be a stretch. Outside of legacy P&L there are barely noticeable additions. CBD needs ongoing love and the streetcar is integral.
There’s enough to purchase additional cars and help fund the riverfront extension. I’m sure someone here has the exact number, but it’s nothing to sneeze at, I’m sure.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Riverite » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:06 am

The streetcar works and in my opinion should act as ether backbone of the free bus network. Defunding it would probably just make people distrust public transit even more

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Riverite » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:07 am

Also didn’t he people elect to be taxed directly for the streetcar. What the fuck is the new council thinking

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by ToDactivist » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:49 pm

Riverite wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:07 am
Also didn’t he people elect to be taxed directly for the streetcar. What the fuck is the new council thinking
correct....like taxing district 1/3 mile on either side. pricey but worth it. "council thinking" is an oxymoron perhaps. But it would be akin to fraud to tax it then reboot to pay-per-use as free is what they constituents (1/3 mile) voted on. Plus it would cost a bundle to retrofit stops and cabs for pay system, then delays, enforcement, blah blah blah.

It wont happen. But still believe the extension to the River should be paid for by those it benefits. How many one-offs will there be?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:37 pm

2 out of 13 isn't "the council"

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:00 pm

Riverite wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:07 am
Also didn’t he people elect to be taxed directly for the streetcar. What the fuck is the new council thinking
They pay money into the system from a transit sales tax that was meant for any transit purpose. The idea is to reallocate that money to a different transit use.

The streetcar has more than one source of money.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:36 am

806 car is now in service for regular rotation...
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... racks.html

It says 4 will run on Saturdays now but they've been doing that anyway, and for large events. Isn't it really just about another spare on hand while others under repair? Ideally 4 would be used for any high traffic periods/events, including lunch hour weekdays. Four is the sweet spot whereas 3 seems more difficult to keep within 15 minutes at times.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:16 am

I long for the day of the most frequent service during am rush. That's the time riders are most time sensitive when deciding if they will use the streetcar or not

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 am

At least they seem to be running 3 more often now for mornings. Was 2 at times.

I was at the Kaufmann/Hampton stop early morning a while back and two women that came out of hotel were concerned of over 20 minute wait, had an office meeting. They were about to grab an Uber but then we saw the train coming. Of course running more doesn't matter when parked cars block streetcars but I don't think it was the case. They do have mgmt issues sometimes where the one parked at US doesn't leave until one behind it is approaching US. Not very efficient.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:10 am

earthling wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 am
I was at the Kaufmann/Hampton stop early morning a while back and two women that came out of hotel were concerned of over 20 minute wait, had an office meeting. They were about to grab an Uber but then we saw the train coming. Of course running more doesn't matter when parked cars block streetcars but I don't think it was the case.

They do have mgmt issues sometimes where the one parked at US doesn't leave until one behind it is approaching US. Not very efficient.
Interestingly, your last point is related to your first point.

From what's been said before the time trains leave Union Station is the place they use to fix spacing issues in operations. They could hold a train at 3rd/Grand but it's much simpler to do adjustements from a single point.

If 801 is at 14th NB , 802 is at Union Station and 803 is at 16th SB you want to let 801 get as far ahead as possible before releasing 802 to aim for the expected gaps in the system. NB users are fine now and SB users have to wait on 801 so you then hold 803 until 801 is at a certain point

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 pm

Two trains at Union Station is not a "management issue". This is the streetcar route's layover!

The weekday schedule is three vehicles at all times. If only two are in service, then a third vehicle (or operator) was not available to meet the schedule. KCATA has the same problem some days.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:26 am

For 3 cars in service it could be more efficiently managed with shorter layover even factoring bathroom/standing breaks. Many times the driver is sitting at controls waiting for streetcar to get close to US when it could take off when streetcar behind is around P&L or Kauffman stops. Would better balance 3 running cars more evenly about downtown than 2 running at a time, meaning shorter waits on avg. They should shoot for average 11-13min, but they seem to be targeting the top end of SLA and then often miss it. Of course cars blocking traffic will happen but they are missing SLA when that's not happening.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:28 am

Check out the wait time for longest gap at this moment. If the US car left when behind one approaching P&L, would be more balanced. BTW, this map tracker looks to be the most accurate ever since 806 car arrived.

http://kcstreetcar.org/route/streetcar-tracker/

Image

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:36 am

earthling wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:28 am
Check out the wait time for longest gap at this moment. If the US car left when behind one approaching P&L, would be more balanced. BTW, this map tracker looks to be the most accurate ever since 806 car arrived.
Depends on traffic and passenger loads in each segment. If 19th and 16th aren't being used much when you took the image but downtown is slow because of an event and it only takes a couple minutes to transit the section it's entirely possible NB and SB could pass each other around 14th

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:37 am

I've watched it many times over months, while also physically in the US car. The US car often waits for car behind to reach near US when not due to traffic, load or bad parking. It could happen with bathroom breaks, which is expected but I've seen drivers still waiting 10 minutes at the controls when the system is or about to be out of SLA.

A few minutes later below, not good. It's not traffic as I've watched and all cars were moving as expected. US car waiting for behind car to reach US is not a good approach. They'll leave earlier reactively if a major issue comes up but they could balance 3 more proactively and prevent this issue. The issue below could have been prevented if you look above and the US 803 car left when 802 car behind was approaching P&L stop. But 803 didn't leave until 802 car behind approached US, resulting in the below a few minutes later...

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:31 am

About an hour later (11:30AM) lunch hours, 20 minute wait for longest gap due to US car waiting too long. I've sent this page of thread to the streetcar org. Will be interesting if they do anything. edit: Just got a response they are sending to operations team.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:18 am

October ridership....

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Last edited by earthling on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by ToDactivist » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:42 pm

wonder why the only months you see YoY increases is (generally) the summer months? All others are either lower, flat or slightly up. Downtown population theoretically has increased...has worker pop also increased? Is everyone healthier by walking then or will the additional units help with the former lag times for increased ridership now?

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