OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal
- KCPowercat
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
I have no idea.
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- Alameda Tower
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Interesting stuff from Wikipedia on TWA's insistence on the unusual terminal design then rapid abandonment of MCI as its primary hub due to the problems caused by the design it had insisted on:
Many design decisions were driven by TWA, which envisioned the facility as its hub, with 747s and Supersonic Transports whisking people from America's heartland to all points on the globe. Streets around the airport included Mexico City Avenue, Brasília Avenue, Paris Street, London Avenue, and Tel Aviv Avenue.
TWA vetoed concepts to model the airport on Washington Dulles International Airport and Tampa International Airport, because those two airports had people movers, which it deemed too expensive. TWA insisted on "Drive to Your Gate" with flight gates 75 feet (23 m) from the roadway (signs along the roadway showed the flights leaving each gate). The single-level terminals had no stairs, similar to a plan that would be built at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.
TWA's vision
TWA's vision for the future of flight that had been pioneered by the TWA Flight Center at JFK Airport in New York City (which also featured cars close to the gates design) proved troublesome almost from the start.
The terminals turned out to be unfriendly to the 747 since passengers spilled out of the gate area into the halls. When security checkpoints were added in the 1970s to stem hijackings, they were difficult and expensive to implement since security checkpoints had to be installed at each gate area rather than at a centralized area.
As a result, passenger services were nonexistent downstream of the security checkpoint in the gate area. No restrooms were available, and shops, restaurants, newsstands, ATMs or any other passenger services were not available without exiting the secure area and being re-screened upon re-entry.
Shortly after the airport opened, TWA asked that the terminals be rebuilt to address these issues. Kansas City, citing the massive cost overruns on a newly built airport to TWA specification, refused, prompting TWA to move its hub to Lambert-Saint Louis International Airport in St. Louis, Missouri.[12]
- FangKC
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
It sounds to me like TWA management at the time simply didn't know what they were doing. The part about the 747 passengers not having enough room in the terminal indicates that.
- FangKC
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Recycling the rubble.
Airport officials help manage Terminal A construction waste during demolition
https://www.kctv5.com/news/kctv5_news_t ... 5270b.html
Airport officials help manage Terminal A construction waste during demolition
https://www.kctv5.com/news/kctv5_news_t ... 5270b.html
- normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Just a thought but: What if we sold our airport and used the funds to pay down our debt or build out transit? Most western airports are privatized anyways and the FAA has a program set up for us to do so.
- KCPowercat
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
- smh
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
That it is a public good. But that's about the extent of my understanding.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
100% private?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
No public meetings
No public finances, investors will demand profits from the airport. No public votes on items that would raise prices
Their choice on what amenities are inside the terminal and where
They own the land, they make deals with airlines to land there
Public services have to be contracted/purchased from the city
Will be more regional. Imagine seeing ads to fly from KC as if it was Fantastic Caverns
For the new terminal
The city would need to approve building a new terminal in terms of the permit approval process. No public selection of the builder. No selection of the time frame. No minority or women owned requirements.
More demands for public incentives to keep service levels up.
- normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Many(almost all) of the “cons” above already occur in the current management structure.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:51 pm100% private?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
No public meetings
No public finances, investors will demand profits from the airport. No public votes on items that would raise prices
Their choice on what amenities are inside the terminal and where
They own the land, they make deals with airlines to land there
Public services have to be contracted/purchased from the city
Will be more regional. Imagine seeing ads to fly from KC as if it was Fantastic Caverns
For the new terminal
The city would need to approve building a new terminal in terms of the permit approval process. No public selection of the builder. No selection of the time frame. No minority or women owned requirements.
More demands for public incentives to keep service levels up.
Private airports make their money on F&B, Services, and Amenities. That’s why you see soo many restaurants and shops when traveling Europe.
In regards to the new terminal, the city permitting department goes through the permit process with any project including the New Terminal. Let’s not forget that without the city referendum process, CFRG, and general slow gov. action, we would about to be opening the new terminal.
Last edited by normalthings on Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
- KCPowercat
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
An airport seems lesser extent than other infrastructure. Seems to be operated almost privately now.smh wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:38 pmThat it is a public good. But that's about the extent of my understanding.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
- normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
A pivate company manages all parking, another manages all of the F&B. Airlines hold the Aviation Department’s purse strings. The rest of the aviation department is run like a business but with the requirements of a city department.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:20 pmAn airport seems lesser extent than other infrastructure. Seems to be operated almost privately now.smh wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:38 pmThat it is a public good. But that's about the extent of my understanding.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
My greatest fear would be preferential treatment given to 1 big carrier. However, that’s pretty much how it works now with Southwest. Other western private airports generally manage to a-lot gates in a fair manner.
Last edited by normalthings on Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- Hotel President
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Dumb question, but when you say western are you referring to the western us or the western world?normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:28 pmMy greatest fear would be preferential treatment given to 1 big carrier. However, that’s pretty much how it works now. Other western private airports generally manager to a lot Gates in a fair manner.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:20 pmAn airport seems lesser extent than other infrastructure. Seems to be operated almost privately now.
I know nothing about this and have to figure out what dumb question to ask next to understand this.
- normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Western World: In Europe, 40% of Commercial Airports or 80% of passengers , Australia(Oceania), some Asia (iirc) etc.WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:31 pmDumb question, but when you say western are you referring to the western us or the western world?normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:28 pmMy greatest fear would be preferential treatment given to 1 big carrier. However, that’s pretty much how it works now. Other western private airports generally manager to a lot Gates in a fair manner.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:20 pm
An airport seems lesser extent than other infrastructure. Seems to be operated almost privately now.
I know nothing about this and have to figure out what dumb question to ask next to understand this.
Private Commercial Airports in the US is a “very Missouri” thing. The only private commercial airport in the US is Branson. STL is moving in that direction as well. STL’s wanting to sell theirs to help cover their liabilities.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
And the fact that you know about the negatives is because it's not private.normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 pmMany(almost all) of the “cons” above already occur in the current management structure.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:51 pm100% private?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am What are the common arguments against a private airport? I'm up for exploring it.
No public meetings
No public finances, investors will demand profits from the airport. No public votes on items that would raise prices
Their choice on what amenities are inside the terminal and where
They own the land, they make deals with airlines to land there
Public services have to be contracted/purchased from the city
Will be more regional. Imagine seeing ads to fly from KC as if it was Fantastic Caverns
For the new terminal
The city would need to approve building a new terminal in terms of the permit approval process. No public selection of the builder. No selection of the time frame. No minority or women owned requirements.
More demands for public incentives to keep service levels up.
Private airports make their money on F&B, Services, and Amenities. That’s why you see soo many restaurants and shops when traveling Europe.
In regards to the new terminal, the city permitting department goes through the permit process with any project including the New Terminal. Let’s not forget that without the city referendum process, CFRG, and general slow gov. action, we would about to be opening the new terminal.
You can't say that the process being visible was the cause of the delay. Look at how long the totally secret convention hotel process took.
- Eon Blue
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Isn’t St. Louis pursuing airport privatization?
- beautyfromashes
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
What is the average costs of our city debt? If it’s cheap money, why pay it off?
- FangKC
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- normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
We have a debt/liability load that is much higher than comparable cities(probably linked to low density. I just threw debt payments out as an option.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:03 pm What is the average costs of our city debt? If it’s cheap money, why pay it off?
My top preferred destinations for the funds would be:
1. Public Transit Cap Ex
2. Education Cap Ex potentially including UMKC
3. Complete Street Infrastructure
- mykem
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!
Better mass transit, streets with curbs and storm drains along with more sidewalks, and bike lanes.
- warwickland
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