KCMO Downtown Streetcar
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
We don't want signal priority, we want OGL enabled downtown so the whole area can be managed as one
We need to speed up leaving Main and slow down turning onto it.
Who cares if it gets a green light at 7th if it has to wait at 14th because the cars turning left onto Truman back up into the through lane because the lights aren't being triggered at Walnut, Grand, Oak quick enough
This is the city market problem. The system needs to not turn a light green at 6th and Walnut/Grand or Indep and Wyandotte heading into the market if there's a crazy long backup on 5th. It needs to dynamically control the light cycles on the circle to clear traffic out and delay the train just a touch until it can flow through better. Adding 10 seconds per stop feels a lot better than adding 5 minutes stuck in traffic.
This must be coordinated with controlling lot ingress and egress. If this means putting lot gates that block exits if the train is close that could help.
We need to speed up leaving Main and slow down turning onto it.
Who cares if it gets a green light at 7th if it has to wait at 14th because the cars turning left onto Truman back up into the through lane because the lights aren't being triggered at Walnut, Grand, Oak quick enough
This is the city market problem. The system needs to not turn a light green at 6th and Walnut/Grand or Indep and Wyandotte heading into the market if there's a crazy long backup on 5th. It needs to dynamically control the light cycles on the circle to clear traffic out and delay the train just a touch until it can flow through better. Adding 10 seconds per stop feels a lot better than adding 5 minutes stuck in traffic.
This must be coordinated with controlling lot ingress and egress. If this means putting lot gates that block exits if the train is close that could help.
Last edited by flyingember on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Alameda Tower
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
So.... what you're saying is this smart city thing could be beneficial after all. /s
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Not sarcastically, yes, if we think big enough.Riverite wrote:So.... what you're saying is this smart city thing could be beneficial after all. /s
One street of changes won't help as we've seen. We need traffic control on 200+ blocks downtown all at once.
This isn't hard to picture. Take a map of downtown, take 200 tiny cars, 30 busses and three trains. Come up with 233 different paths, 233 different sources and 233 destinations and try to move them around the map, all crossing Main, and not block the train when you can't control how cars move on anything except Main.
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- Hotel President
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
This was far more intelligent than what I wrote.flyingember wrote:We don't want signal priority, we want OGL enabled downtown so the whole area can be managed as one
We need to speed up leaving Main and slow down turning onto it.
Who cares if it gets a green light at 7th if it has to wait at 14th because the cars turning left onto Truman back up into the through lane because the lights aren't being triggered at Walnut, Grand, Oak quick enough
This is the city market problem. The system needs to not turn a light green at 6th and Walnut/Grand or Indep and Wyandotte heading into the market if there's a crazy long backup on 5th. It needs to dynamically control the light cycles on the circle to clear traffic out and delay the train just a touch until it can flow through better. Adding 10 seconds per stop feels a lot better than adding 5 minutes stuck in traffic.
This must be coordinated with controlling lot ingress and egress. If this means putting lot gates that block exits if the train is close that could help.
I complain out of love. I just don't want to get to the point where we stop fighting for things to get better. Tons of respect to people like Dave though who work this everyday to make it better.
- smh
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Honestly, if you live right by a streetcar stop WoodDraw you should be using itsab.us. I too live and work near a stop and I always use it to time my arrival to the station. Rarely wait more than a minute, two tops. But I feel you re: stopping at red lights--it's BS that we could easily solve from what I hear if the powers that be at KCMO were on board (so to speak).
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
It's hard, there's no doubt about it.
I figure there's several million possible paths across downtown and there's no possible way to manually tune downtown to handle any of them.
Our problems come from trying to do too much manually. The real smart city doesn't care about who someone is or if they're in a car, bus or train, it cares about getting people off the streets. It should be able to see a group of pedestrians well before the intersection and be cycling signals 30 seconds before they get there. It should learn based on schedules and events, like if 100 cars turn into a garage near the Sprint Center on an event night that it needs to be tuning things to have them all cross the street soon
Oh, this is very, very hard, but if the city isn't aiming for this it's not becoming a smart city.
I figure there's several million possible paths across downtown and there's no possible way to manually tune downtown to handle any of them.
Our problems come from trying to do too much manually. The real smart city doesn't care about who someone is or if they're in a car, bus or train, it cares about getting people off the streets. It should be able to see a group of pedestrians well before the intersection and be cycling signals 30 seconds before they get there. It should learn based on schedules and events, like if 100 cars turn into a garage near the Sprint Center on an event night that it needs to be tuning things to have them all cross the street soon
Oh, this is very, very hard, but if the city isn't aiming for this it's not becoming a smart city.
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- Hotel President
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
This is true and a fair criticism.smh wrote:Honestly, if you live right by a streetcar stop WoodDraw you should be using itsab.us. I too live and work near a stop and I always use it to time my arrival to the station. Rarely wait more than a minute, two tops. But I feel you re: stopping at red lights--it's BS that we could easily solve from what I hear if the powers that be at KCMO were on board (so to speak).
I often complain here as a devil's advocate.
- DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
um, i'm gonna call bullshit and say this is a bit more than "devil's advocate":WoodDraw wrote:This is true and a fair criticism.smh wrote:Honestly, if you live right by a streetcar stop WoodDraw you should be using itsab.us. I too live and work near a stop and I always use it to time my arrival to the station. Rarely wait more than a minute, two tops. But I feel you re: stopping at red lights--it's BS that we could easily solve from what I hear if the powers that be at KCMO were on board (so to speak).
I often complain here as a devil's advocate.
It's also horribly unreliable.
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- New York Life
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Have to scratch my head on the "unreliable" comment. I ride the streetcar almost daily multiple times a day typically and live right along the streetcar line. It's been very reliable with very few exceptions. Especially compared to my experiences with other mass transit. I just need it to expand...
I have found the "app" pretty unreliable especially in the past few weeks, but the streetcar schedule has been very regular and frequent which is what really matters to me.
I have found the "app" pretty unreliable especially in the past few weeks, but the streetcar schedule has been very regular and frequent which is what really matters to me.
- DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
there is a known issue with the android "KCityPost" app. iOS works fine. you can always track vehicles here: https://itsab.us/tracker/KCtonic wrote:I have found the "app" pretty unreliable especially in the past few weeks, but the streetcar schedule has been very regular and frequent which is what really matters to me.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Thanks - definitely been using that android app. Forgot about that link and will start using it instead.DaveKCMO wrote:there is a known issue with the android "KCityPost" app. iOS works fine. you can always track vehicles here: https://itsab.us/tracker/KCtonic wrote:I have found the "app" pretty unreliable especially in the past few weeks, but the streetcar schedule has been very regular and frequent which is what really matters to me.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I also just need it to expand already. The Troost MAX and Main MAX work fine as commuting option but they're not spurring the kind of redevelopment and density the streetcar extension will bring.
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- Hotel President
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
That's fair, and I don't think I do a very good job expressing my problems with it. I should probably stop instinctively posting and do a better job of writing out actionable issues. It's a fair criticism.DaveKCMO wrote:um, i'm gonna call bullshit and say this is a bit more than "devil's advocate":WoodDraw wrote:This is true and a fair criticism.smh wrote:Honestly, if you live right by a streetcar stop WoodDraw you should be using itsab.us. I too live and work near a stop and I always use it to time my arrival to the station. Rarely wait more than a minute, two tops. But I feel you re: stopping at red lights--it's BS that we could easily solve from what I hear if the powers that be at KCMO were on board (so to speak).
I often complain here as a devil's advocate.
It's also horribly unreliable.
- DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
803 should be back in service soon. have had quite a bit of two-car service lately. frustrating, i know, but the team is doing a great job getting the cars back into service when crashes happen. those two new cars can't get here soon enough!
- KCPowercat
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Will we ever know the responsible party for the last two crashes? Seems that should be made public for the ratepayers to know what is costing us cash.
Not being pushy just wondering the process as we knew the teenage kids crash complete with video within the week.
Not being pushy just wondering the process as we knew the teenage kids crash complete with video within the week.
- DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
make a sunshine act request. i don't even know the deets.KCPowercat wrote:Will we ever know the responsible party for the last two crashes? Seems that should be made public for the ratepayers to know what is costing us cash.
Not being pushy just wondering the process as we knew the teenage kids crash complete with video within the week.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Is there a place to see the financials of the streetcar group
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
there's a streetcar section in the city's annual budget: https://data.kcmo.org/Budget/FY-2016-17 ... /jkcu-25gmldai_phs wrote:Is there a place to see the financials of the streetcar group
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Spoilers:DaveKCMO wrote:there's a streetcar section in the city's annual budget: https://data.kcmo.org/Budget/FY-2016-17 ... /jkcu-25gmldai_phs wrote:Is there a place to see the financials of the streetcar group
four tax sources have have helped fund the streetcar
TDD taxes
Public Transit sales tax
Capital Improvements sales tax
General fund
The fourth one was a tiny percentage of one year and isn't currently being used.
What I didn't expect is two citywide taxes is/has been helping pay for the train
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Streetcar released numbers for ridership in November. We can now compare May-Nov for 2016/2017. Basically it is holding steady with total ridership up in 2017 for the same time period compared to 2016.
http://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/
http://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/