The spot at Linwood and Main would be perfect for this.flyingember wrote:Why not at Union Station? Intrigued on this idea.miz.jordan17 wrote:This may be a pie in the sky idea, but what if there was a "station" of sorts in the midtown area for the streetcar. It could serve as a connecting point, kind of like Ogilvie in Chicago. Visiting Chicago always makes me happy that KC is starting to be a real city, however slowly that may be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogilvie_T ... ion_Center
KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Why Main and not Troost? If the goal is to create a centralized transit hub wouldn't it make sense to be closer to more bus lines?mykn wrote:The spot at Linwood and Main would be perfect for this.flyingember wrote:Why not at Union Station? Intrigued on this idea.miz.jordan17 wrote:This may be a pie in the sky idea, but what if there was a "station" of sorts in the midtown area for the streetcar. It could serve as a connecting point, kind of like Ogilvie in Chicago. Visiting Chicago always makes me happy that KC is starting to be a real city, however slowly that may be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogilvie_T ... ion_Center
-
- Ambassador
- Posts: 6020
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:30 pm
- Location: Northmoor
- Contact:
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
NorthOak wrote: ...
Here are photos showing Mulkey Square, it was very run down, dilapidated and most of the buildings were already torn down or abandoned.
http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... y-and.html
This was really fascinating! I have often wondered where Mulkey Square Park got its name.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Because I live at Main and Linwoodflyingember wrote:Why Main and not Troost? If the goal is to create a centralized transit hub wouldn't it make sense to be closer to more bus lines?mykn wrote:The spot at Linwood and Main would be perfect for this.flyingember wrote:
Why not at Union Station? Intrigued on this idea.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18362
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
The Business Journal's article discusses the top development sites along the extended streetcar line to UMKC.
I think they left out an obvious one. It's the NW corner of 31st and Main next to the old Trinity Lutheran garage. I also think several parcels west of Main and south of 31st Street--around Conklin-Fangman Cadillac--are in play.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-the.html
I think they left out an obvious one. It's the NW corner of 31st and Main next to the old Trinity Lutheran garage. I also think several parcels west of Main and south of 31st Street--around Conklin-Fangman Cadillac--are in play.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-the.html
-
- Penntower
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 pm
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I believe there are already plans to redevelop the lot on the corner of 31st/Main - signs have been up for months on that corner.FangKC wrote:The Business Journal's article discusses the top development sites along the extended streetcar line to UMKC.
I think they left out an obvious one. It's the NW corner of 31st and Main next to the old Trinity Lutheran garage. I also think several parcels west of Main and south of 31st Street--around Conklin-Fangman Cadillac--are in play.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-the.html
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Could someone post a summary of what sites they have outlined for us without access?
- KCtoBrooklyn
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:01 pm
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
That is for expansion of the Rehab Institute (located north of the lots). The design is a rather ugly/sad use of that land.kcjak wrote:I believe there are already plans to redevelop the lot on the corner of 31st/Main - signs have been up for months on that corner.FangKC wrote:The Business Journal's article discusses the top development sites along the extended streetcar line to UMKC.
I think they left out an obvious one. It's the NW corner of 31st and Main next to the old Trinity Lutheran garage. I also think several parcels west of Main and south of 31st Street--around Conklin-Fangman Cadillac--are in play.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-the.html
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Yea, it has a huge parking lot fronting main.KCtoBrooklyn wrote:That is for expansion of the Rehab Institute (located north of the lots). The design is a rather ugly/sad use of that land.kcjak wrote:I believe there are already plans to redevelop the lot on the corner of 31st/Main - signs have been up for months on that corner.FangKC wrote:The Business Journal's article discusses the top development sites along the extended streetcar line to UMKC.
I think they left out an obvious one. It's the NW corner of 31st and Main next to the old Trinity Lutheran garage. I also think several parcels west of Main and south of 31st Street--around Conklin-Fangman Cadillac--are in play.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... n-the.html
-
- Hotel President
- Posts: 3122
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:10 am
- Location: Broadway/Gilham according to google maps
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I think it would be cool to put 4 Iconic KC BBQ restaurants at the Corner of Linwood/Main. You already have Gates, You could tear down the Subway (SW Corner) and put an Arthur Bryants, at the SE Corner you could maybe do a Joe's or something else and at the NW corner put like a version of BB's Lawnside or something. Think it could be a fun draw and good stop on the streetcar line. That intersection is so lifeless and dull. The smells from that intersection would be pretty awesome.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Parking minimums control so many designsmykn wrote:Yea, it has a huge parking lot fronting main.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Only if they are designed for an urban environment. If they are all going to be like Gates, the only improvement would be our street would smell betterbrewcrew1000 wrote:I think it would be cool to put 4 Iconic KC BBQ restaurants at the Corner of Linwood/Main. You already have Gates, You could tear down the Subway (SW Corner) and put an Arthur Bryants, at the SE Corner you could maybe do a Joe's or something else and at the NW corner put like a version of BB's Lawnside or something. Think it could be a fun draw and good stop on the streetcar line. That intersection is so lifeless and dull. The smells from that intersection would be pretty awesome.
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34123
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
These pedestrian sensing streetlights have had long enough. Improvements need to be made. It is creating a more dangerous situation and someone can witness it everyday sitting at any smart intersection....here is how it usually goes.
No ped at light at beginning of signal so no walk sign given...ped shows up 2 seconds later and hesitates as they see don't walk....then they look up and see the traffic flowing in their direction of travel....so they pause a bit longer and then decide to go for it...right about that time is when the cycle is ending OR someone turning left/right is confused by the pedestrian and starts to turn....this leaves the ped to either hurry across as oncoming traffic is now headed towards them or dodge being hit by a turning car.
Listen I understand why the ped sensing technology is there....public works has to give a longer cycle to give a minimum amount of time for ped crossing (can anyone define what that amount of time is?) So if don't have to account for peds then can flip the signal back to the streetcar to get it going faster....I get it.
Even so, isn't the GDAP written that traffic flow should be ped considerations first? Here are some suggestions I have to making these smart intersections smarter and ped friendly.
* When turning the walk sign on one side of the street, turn the other side on in the same direction of travel. This seems like a no brainer and doesn't increase cycle times. It would also reduce the situations described above.
* Turn walk signs on immediately especially in the primary direction of travel. This may increase cycle times but again GDAP. I'd love to see the cycle data w/ and w/o ped activation to see if it really does increase cycle times....the CIO has promised this data would be made available but haven't seen it yet.
* Get ped detectors that work....too many times these things take 5+ seconds to recognize you and you've then missed the light cycle. Also the smart traffic system could be more responsive to ped arrivals/requests
The streetcar line intersections are experiencing a huge increase in ped traffic and while everywhere else downtown they expect to see an automatic ped signal, at these 20? Intersections, which are the most busy, they experience something different.
Who do these suggestions go do that don't just end up in the bit bucket?
No ped at light at beginning of signal so no walk sign given...ped shows up 2 seconds later and hesitates as they see don't walk....then they look up and see the traffic flowing in their direction of travel....so they pause a bit longer and then decide to go for it...right about that time is when the cycle is ending OR someone turning left/right is confused by the pedestrian and starts to turn....this leaves the ped to either hurry across as oncoming traffic is now headed towards them or dodge being hit by a turning car.
Listen I understand why the ped sensing technology is there....public works has to give a longer cycle to give a minimum amount of time for ped crossing (can anyone define what that amount of time is?) So if don't have to account for peds then can flip the signal back to the streetcar to get it going faster....I get it.
Even so, isn't the GDAP written that traffic flow should be ped considerations first? Here are some suggestions I have to making these smart intersections smarter and ped friendly.
* When turning the walk sign on one side of the street, turn the other side on in the same direction of travel. This seems like a no brainer and doesn't increase cycle times. It would also reduce the situations described above.
* Turn walk signs on immediately especially in the primary direction of travel. This may increase cycle times but again GDAP. I'd love to see the cycle data w/ and w/o ped activation to see if it really does increase cycle times....the CIO has promised this data would be made available but haven't seen it yet.
* Get ped detectors that work....too many times these things take 5+ seconds to recognize you and you've then missed the light cycle. Also the smart traffic system could be more responsive to ped arrivals/requests
The streetcar line intersections are experiencing a huge increase in ped traffic and while everywhere else downtown they expect to see an automatic ped signal, at these 20? Intersections, which are the most busy, they experience something different.
Who do these suggestions go do that don't just end up in the bit bucket?
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Give the city a chance to fail on record.
Open a 311 ticket every time. They'll likely close it with nothing to change.
These early tickets will be unproductive but they give you the paper trail to point to and say the city is being responsive and trying but it's a bigger problem than can be fixed with the effort being made.
I have one area that I have got the city to patch three times in three years. My goal is to get them to stop patching and actually repave but I can't get it to happen without the patches failing again. My goal is to show the city is making a lot of effort to not do the job right.
Open a 311 ticket every time. They'll likely close it with nothing to change.
These early tickets will be unproductive but they give you the paper trail to point to and say the city is being responsive and trying but it's a bigger problem than can be fixed with the effort being made.
I have one area that I have got the city to patch three times in three years. My goal is to get them to stop patching and actually repave but I can't get it to happen without the patches failing again. My goal is to show the city is making a lot of effort to not do the job right.
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34123
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
It's not a ticket when working like they designed it....
- staubio
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 6958
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:17 am
- Location: River Market
- Contact:
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
It's not working as designed. Some of the detectors (chiefly the ones that look like WALL-E) don't work very well. The Death Star ones have a better track record. If it fails to detect you, or if it detect you going the proper direction, report it. The failure to discern direction has been a problem and actually creates phantom requests that mess up streetcar priority.
All of this was really a failure to communicate. Beg buttons emerged as public enemy number one, so public works pursued detection so they could still provide priority. The system needs to be able to detect pedestrians for that to work.
All of this was really a failure to communicate. Beg buttons emerged as public enemy number one, so public works pursued detection so they could still provide priority. The system needs to be able to detect pedestrians for that to work.
- KCPowercat
- Ambassador
- Posts: 34123
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
- Location: Quality Hill
- Contact:
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
But there are small solutions that can make it better....have both sides of the street turn to walk if pedestrians are detected on either side....that seems like a really easy fix that would reduce the situations I see on the daily.
I guess it's all a matter of what we want. If streetcar priority is the end all be all I guess that's fine, but get the systems working or until they are, give me a walk signal!
I'd argue pedestrian movement should still be our #1 priority...if that means a cycle lasts 5 extra seconds...so be it.
I guess it's all a matter of what we want. If streetcar priority is the end all be all I guess that's fine, but get the systems working or until they are, give me a walk signal!
I'd argue pedestrian movement should still be our #1 priority...if that means a cycle lasts 5 extra seconds...so be it.
-
- Penntower
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 pm
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Here's an idea - how about an option where pedestrians must push a button to request the walk light?
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
good idea, until the city places them poorly and they're hard to get to.kcjak wrote:Here's an idea - how about an option where pedestrians must push a button to request the walk light?
- grovester
- Oak Tower
- Posts: 4587
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
- Location: KC Metro
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I think signal priority for the streetcar is over-blown for such a short route and stop spacing. "Optimization" is how we ended up with one-way freeways downtown.