Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by DaveKCMO »

south plaza neighborhood newsletter reports that this project is still proceeding with a potential 2017 opening date for the whole foods.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by KCDowntown »

I saw in the latest City Plan Commission docket that they are planning to move the Young Matrons building on this site (yes, move the building) to up the hill from 52nd and Cherry. Assuming this occurs, this building will occupy the southern part of the UMKC surface parking lot at that location.

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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by kcjak »

This is the first new Whole Foods store that doesn't incorporate outdoor seating of some kind - is the Amenity Court going to feature any seating for grab-n-go foods?
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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Any informed opinions as to how this development and the KCATA ground lease specifically would impact streetcar deployment along the trolley trail?
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by NDTeve »

as long as the Administration building remains as it is...there is no reason to pretty anything else up on Oak.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by flyingember »

I think I have been on 50-75% of the college campuses in Missouri (there's a lot of colleges) and they're all that kind of mess. nearly every campus is landlocked inside a town and they all grow as strangely organic as you can imagine where they have to put buildings where they fit.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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flyingember wrote:I think I have been on 50-75% of the college campuses in Missouri (there's a lot of colleges) and they're all that kind of mess. nearly every campus is landlocked inside a town and they all grow as strangely organic as you can imagine where they have to put buildings where they fit.

And in each of these towns the campus 'planning' has created serious negative impacts on the neighborhoods they touch. The exact opposite of what a thoughtful and well run institution would manifest.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by DaveKCMO »

loftguy wrote:Any informed opinions as to how this development and the KCATA ground lease specifically would impact streetcar deployment along the trolley trail?
there is still space for streetcar. however, i would bet that a UMKC extension would stop just north of 51st street just to avoid another grade crossing. vantrust would ultimately help decide that.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by flyingember »

personally I would like to avoid the issue entirely and add a little complexity to the line now that the east side expense seems unlikely

turn east, go down to the Nelson at Cleaver and Rockhill, down to Cherry and over to Brookside Blvd at 52nd

the line could directly serve the heart of UMKC this way and avoid the mess that is the intersection at Volker and Brookside.

alternate route, use Oak instead of Rockhill
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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If there is anywhere I would like to see any kind of "complexity" (which is an idea a hate, hate, hate in transit) it would be run the line west on Westport Road or 39th street over to Broadway/JC Nichols then into the Plaza at Nichols/47th instead of on Main.

I also increasingly think that if the streetcar ever gets extended past the Plaza (which I highly doubt and also don't really strongly support) it should jog over to Troost either on CleaverII or Volker and head south from there. Troost has more development and ridership potential in southtown, in my opinion. Brookside doesn't deserve a line as far as I'm concerned. Neither does the east side. Fuck 'em. They made their own bed (or let other people make it for them).

I increasingly think that August was an ENORMOUS set-back for this city, one that it will not likely recover from in the next 25 years.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

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chingon wrote: I increasingly think that August was an ENORMOUS set-back for this city, one that it will not likely recover from in the next 25 years.
August was an enormous setback for the* east side*. West of Troost is interested in spending money and getting the rewards.

Your 25 year idea has one huge thing hanging over the east side. I don't know if it will be 2031 or 2041 but if you add up all the home developments in the northland plus take the easily 10,000+ residents streaming into downtown 2010-20, the only way the east side does not lose one of their council seats or will see the districts have to span both sides of Troost (which will majorly change the dynamics of city politics) is to find a way to have growth that rivals downtown and then some.

We're talking about needing the equivalent of Shoal Creek to move west of Troost in the next decade. Yes, there's that many home projects in the northland right now. A huge deal project to show the area is open for change was their major chance. They turned this down so it's just a question of how long at this point. 2021 is going to see big changes but nothing like 15-25 years out.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by herrfrank »

chingon wrote:If there is anywhere I would like to see any kind of "complexity" (which is an idea a hate, hate, hate in transit) it would be run the line west on Westport Road or 39th street over to Broadway/JC Nichols then into the Plaza at Nichols/47th instead of on Main.
The original Dodson streetcar line that ran from Downtown along Summit then over to Brookside Boulevard, then down Wornall to Waldo (and east to Dodson) did pass directly through Westport. The line ran on a surface right-of-way from Summit through (what are now) built lots between Mill and Pennsylvania before coming to a clearing behind the Embassy Suites. Southward, it crossed JC Nichols Parkway and 43d street on a dedicated bridge (demolished in the 1990s) and ran through Mill Creek, crossing Main just north of 47th Street and running on the east of the old Main Street alignment to its own bridge over Brush Creek before meeting up with the "Trolley Trail" RoW.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by flyingember »

herrfrank wrote:
chingon wrote:If there is anywhere I would like to see any kind of "complexity" (which is an idea a hate, hate, hate in transit) it would be run the line west on Westport Road or 39th street over to Broadway/JC Nichols then into the Plaza at Nichols/47th instead of on Main.
The original Dodson streetcar line that ran from Downtown along Summit then over to Brookside Boulevard, then down Wornall to Waldo (and east to Dodson) did pass directly through Westport. The line ran on a surface right-of-way from Summit through (what are now) built lots between Mill and Pennsylvania before coming to a clearing behind the Embassy Suites. Southward, it crossed JC Nichols Parkway and 43d street on a dedicated bridge (demolished in the 1990s) and ran through Mill Creek, crossing Main just north of 47th Street and running on the east of the old Main Street alignment to its own bridge over Brush Creek before meeting up with the "Trolley Trail" RoW.
while accurate, it's worth noting the trolley trail row actually starts just SE of Westport and Mill. it's intact next to that Embassy Suites.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by herrfrank »

flyingember wrote:while accurate, it's worth noting the trolley trail row actually starts just SE of Westport and Mill. it's intact next to that Embassy Suites.
Why did the city demolish the old streetcar bridge? If the RoW is intact on both sides of 43d street, it's almost shocking that the bridge was knocked down (it was structurally sound according to an engineer I know in the area)
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by earthling »

herrfrank wrote:
flyingember wrote:while accurate, it's worth noting the trolley trail row actually starts just SE of Westport and Mill. it's intact next to that Embassy Suites.
Why did the city demolish the old streetcar bridge? If the RoW is intact on both sides of 43d street, it's almost shocking that the bridge was knocked down (it was structurally sound according to an engineer I know in the area)
Large vehicles kept getting stuck under it. I've seen some that had to be pulled out.
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Re: Whole Foods mixed-use project @ 51/Oak

Post by slimwhitman »

earthling wrote:
herrfrank wrote:
flyingember wrote:while accurate, it's worth noting the trolley trail row actually starts just SE of Westport and Mill. it's intact next to that Embassy Suites.
Why did the city demolish the old streetcar bridge? If the RoW is intact on both sides of 43d street, it's almost shocking that the bridge was knocked down (it was structurally sound according to an engineer I know in the area)
Large vehicles kept getting stuck under it. I've seen some that had to be pulled out.
Not possible....by ordinance, trucks are not allowed on P&R boulevards. (ha!)
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