The plan is the first in Missouri history to incorporate bicycling, walking, and transit alongside all other transportation projects. Besides bridge and road projects, funding would be available for “complete streets” projects. “Complete Streets” policies ensure that a community’s roads are safe for all users — drivers as well as pedestrians, bicyclists, public transit riders, schoolchildren and older adults.
With more of our members 50 and over living active lifestyles, this may be an important issue for you to consider as you think about your community’s walkability, pedestrian friendliness and transit options. AARP is not taking an official position for or against Amendment 7, however we work with regional leaders to ensure that transit options and “complete streets” concepts are included in any new transportation funding. We urge you learn about this issue and make an educated decision before voting on August 5th.
Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
One item to consider on prop 7. From AARP:
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
I applaud them on their backing of Complete Streets. Unfortunately, MODOT is doing little more than a token inclusion of anything but road projects.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Time for final thoughts.
I dislike Amendment 1 as a statewide item and the fact that it bans tolls as an option.
Are the local non-highway projects added on enough to overrule this? I'm leaning towards yes for this part but am uncertain.
I dislike Amendment 1 as a statewide item and the fact that it bans tolls as an option.
Are the local non-highway projects added on enough to overrule this? I'm leaning towards yes for this part but am uncertain.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
amendment 7 (although amendment 1 is also a shit show).flyingember wrote:Time for final thoughts.
I dislike Amendment 1 as a statewide item and the fact that it bans tolls as an option.
Are the local non-highway projects added on enough to overrule this? I'm leaning towards yes for this part but am uncertain.
my main reasons for voting yes are the money for KCATA ($65 million, for which there are no other sources available) and acquiring the rock island ROW for future trail/transit use.
streetcar will be fine without it, but that money comes to the city sooner and thus would help reduce financing costs. it also looks better to the feds to have another funding partner at the table.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
I'm leaning towards yes on this thing but still don't feel great about it.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.lock+load wrote:No
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
The tax is unfair. Trucks pay zero, and they are a major user and abuser of roads.KCPowercat wrote:What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.lock+load wrote:No
It would be great to be able to fund all these side projects but first and foremost this tax is about roads, and the average Missourian is carrying the load for the big businesses that put all the 18-wheelers on the highways.
A sales tax for the transit projects coupled with an increased gas tax and/or I-70 tolls would be a much better option. It's not like this is a one time shot. Roads and bridges will still need repaired.
It's almost like the transit and streetcar money is a bribe to get more on board with a bad plan.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
I agree tolls would be a better funding option.
I also think tolls would go down in flames.
I also think tolls would go down in flames.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?mean wrote:I agree tolls would be a better funding option.
I also think tolls would go down in flames.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Thanks for the reply....those are the exact same reasons I'm hesitant.lock+load wrote:The tax is unfair. Trucks pay zero, and they are a major user and abuser of roads.KCPowercat wrote:What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.lock+load wrote:No
It would be great to be able to fund all these side projects but first and foremost this tax is about roads, and the average Missourian is carrying the load for the big businesses that put all the 18-wheelers on the highways.
A sales tax for the transit projects coupled with an increased gas tax and/or I-70 tolls would be a much better option. It's not like this is a one time shot. Roads and bridges will still need repaired.
It's almost like the transit and streetcar money is a bribe to get more on board with a bad plan.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
it's fees that favor trucking that makes people dislike tollsKCPowercat wrote: I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?
kdot costs-
a car to go from Oklahoma to KC is $12
A 18-wheel truck is $31.50
a car that weighs 3000 pounds vs a truck that can weight 80,000 pounds obviously does so much different amounts of damage
that car it's a 100% loss for the driver
the toll is a business expense for most trucking companies. they account for the tolls in the cost of the goods they're selling.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Why does everyone assume tolls or an increased gas tax are not viable? It's because the trucking industry lobbyists are planting that seed and the media is spreading it. Let's put all three options on the same ballot and see which wins.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
I'm not following what you are saying.flyingember wrote:it's fees that favor trucking that makes people dislike tollsKCPowercat wrote: I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?
kdot costs-
a car to go from Oklahoma to KC is $12
A 18-wheel truck is $31.50
a car that weighs 3000 pounds vs a truck that can weight 80,000 pounds obviously does so much different amounts of damage
that car it's a 100% loss for the driver
the toll is a business expense for most trucking companies. they account for the tolls in the cost of the goods they're selling.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Gas tax is becoming less viable due to decreasing miles driven.....I think a toll is very viable but it's not the trucking lobbyists making me think it's not a popular option with middle missouri.lock+load wrote:Why does everyone assume tolls or an increased gas tax are not viable? It's because the trucking industry lobbyists are planting that seed and the media is spreading it. Let's put all three options on the same ballot and see which wins.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Excluding Jackson, St. Charles, and St. Louis counties, there are 42 exits on I-70 in Missouri. The entirety of the Kansas turnpike, which is roughly the same length, only has 22 interchanges + 2 terminal tollbooths. Missouri's either going to have to spend more to construct toll plazas at these interchanges or eliminate some of them, which would be very unpopular after 40+ years of use.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
Modern toll systems don't work like Kansas does. Check out some of Dallas new ones and Miami. No booths. No tickets. Cameras bill drivers without electronic tag systemlongviewmo wrote:Excluding Jackson, St. Charles, and St. Louis counties, there are 42 exits on I-70 in Missouri. The entirety of the Kansas turnpike, which is roughly the same length, only has 22 interchanges + 2 terminal tollbooths. Missouri's either going to have to spend more to construct toll plazas at these interchanges or eliminate some of them, which would be very unpopular after 40+ years of use.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
They might for a while, but the congestion and increased travel time on those routes are going to make paying the toll the best option over time.NDTeve wrote:trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.
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Re: Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014
guess what the shortest Chicago to KC route is per google. I-55 to I-72/US 36 to I-35. it's 25 miles shorter. a truck going at most 65mph isn't going to see a real difference.lock+load wrote:They might for a while, but the congestion and increased travel time on those routes are going to make paying the toll the best option over time.NDTeve wrote:trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.
now, there is a reason you won't see tons of trucks on US 36 or 50, and it's truck-friendly amenities. there's WAY more on I-70 today.
Last edited by flyingember on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.