Bannister Mall/Cerner

[KCMax]

This is a fast growing company. Is it possible they'll expand to another office downtown someday?

And how wedded are they to their north KC office?

[FangKC]

The NKC office campus is fairly small, and I could see them selling it at some point. There are several buildings with adjacent parking, and any buyer could easily turn it into a mixed office park, and rent it out to a two, three, or four smaller companies. It's a good central location near major highways.

http://tinyurl.com/qb6a7tf

[earthling]

Looks like Cerner is more interested in owning than leasing. They'd have to find a site to buy and factor additional cost to have a large urban garage, streetcar or not. Maybe a 5-10 year plan? Would like to see them in large lot next to Phoenix bar. I just don't see the CEO as a pro urban guy but he needs to understand that a good chunk of college grads they hire want urban living and would love to be able to walk/short commute to work. The pressure needs to come from Cerner employees.

[pash]

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[aknowledgeableperson]

I have several friends that work at the new Cerner location in the West and though it is a great building, they feel like trapped mice out there. Sure, they can run to the Legends to shop or grab some overpriced food or even to the Casino if they want but they all say the same thing. We're stuck in the middle of nowhere... ... ... ...

I wouldn't deny that several of your friends feel that way. What would be interesting, though, is how do other employees feel about the location. What percentage feels one way and what percentage feels another way?

[moderne]

Regarding the NKC campus, it was originally built in the late eighties as a northland corporate woods. It was called Rock Creek office park. Cerner moved in later. As for saying it is good Cerner does not go DT because of lack of transit is a sweet lemon idea. There could be even more pressing transit issues at Bannister. 435 already carries more autos on its south loop than any other freeway. I can just hear the call in a few years to reconstruct the grandview triangle interchange so even more cars can fit into it and the Cerner people can get home to JoCo easier. When I lived at the View there were quite a few Cerner employees resident there, but then you can see the NKC campus from the View.

[pash]

.

[FangKC]

Fang, there are, what?, something like 100,000 workers in greater downtown right now. The area could handle a 15% increase over five or ten years just fine. In fact, 15,000 new workers wouldn't even bring downtown's employment up to the level of a decade ago. And with the streetcar coming online and with far more living options than in the past, downtown is now better equipped for growth than it has been for half a century.

That said, I'm not terribly upset that Cerner's not building downtown. I think downtown will continue to benefit from diversifying its uses—proportionally fewer big corporate offices, more residential, retail and entertainment. But it's not like some far corner of the metro is the only other option for a big office, either.

Pash, I was mostly replying to the suggestion of putting that number of additional Cerner office space, workers, and parking in the East Village--especially with the GSA Building potential taking up two city blocks already.

Yes, you could spread the Cerner employees all over greater downtown, but I doubt that is what Cerner would do. They would want them consolidated in a large office building(s), and would probably require big parking garages as well. I worry that it would turn the East Village into a series of dead blocks with one large office building in the middle--instead of it being a mixed use neighborhood with a lot of additional housing units as has been planned.

In my defense, I have been advocating for awhile now redeveloping Paseo West into a biomedical/technology campus--going back several years (to 2006 at least). This was even before the P&L and Sprint Center were finished, and well before Cerner announced such big expansion plans.

The reason I have been advocating this for so long has to do with the neighborhood's proximity to downtown and highways. Since large parts of the neighborhood are low density, unpopulated, mostly light industrial, and even vacant land, it seemed to me that it could be redeveloped to more easily handle parking issues. One could start from scratch, and put a lot of the parking underground, in interior above-grade garages hidden by the office buildings, or in garages up against I-70. Also because one would be starting from scratch, it could be developed as a mixed use neighborhood with retail and housing scattered among the office buildings. One could also incorporate larger building sizes without demolishing a lot of functional historic buildings inside the Loop and Crossroads.

While a fantasy, it seemed to me a logical place to create an education/research/technology hub that would jumpstart greater downtown. I imagined an expanded Kansas City University, and concentrating employers like Stowers Institute, MRI, Cerner, Garmin, and maybe a large engineering firm like Burns & McDonnell, or Black & Veatch there. This would centralize the job base, and create more opportunities for mass transit development.

However, a plan like this would have required years of advance planning to have attracted Cerner in the timeline they want.

Re: Downtown rentable office space

Down the line, perhaps if we are able to build a biosciences industry and specifically a campus, Cerner might move to new quarters nearer the campus. The same with the Stower's Expansion. I think the City should try and convince them to come closer to the river and not south KC. I'd like to see it be built around Kansas City University near Paseo and Independence (as my many posts have made clear ). Maybe Cerner could build a headquarters around 12th and Troost.

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=283426#p283426

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Re: Bannister Mall/Three Trails Development

With Cerner, one could only hope for a small presence downtown in the future (percentage of total jobs metro-wide). With 12,000-15,000 new jobs potentially, it would be hard to build enough space downtown with enough parking for those employees who don't have access to public transportation. It would require huge parking garages. Which in turn usually results in building demolition.

We don't presently have the mass transit infrastructure to deal with so many workers, to avoid building the needed parking spaces. We might someday if commuter rail happens, and the streetcar expands.

Perhaps we might see a day where Cerner might put 500-1000 administrative workers in a downtown headquarters.

I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but in would have to be adjacent to downtown, and not the loop. Cerner could build a large urban campus between downtown and Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences -- in the Paseo West district. A technology campus aligned with a university presence that could grow. There would be plenty of opportunities to build new offices and include garage parking along the edges of the neighborhood against the freeways, or underground. The neighborhood has good access to major highways, and would be along a possible streetcar route down Independence Avenue.

The neighborhood could be redeveloped to also include a lot of residential apartment buildings mixed in and around the campus.

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=505558#p505558

Aerial of the neighborhood.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.10299,-9 ... 8&t=h&z=15

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... er#p516145

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Re: What's the matter with Rockhurst and UMKC?

I'd like to see a completely new world-class science and technology university started that has a programs geared towards the basic and advanced sciences, physics and mathematics, engineering, economics, medical research, nanotechnology, robotics, telecommunications, computer sciences, and energy-generation. Sort of a combination of MIT and Johns Hopkins. All of these disciplines are geared to industry and business development, and would help grow our economy in a major way. The research often spins off companies that locate nearby.

Convince a bunch of really wealthy local families to band together and endow this university. People who own American Century, Cerner, Hallmark, Garmin, and local banks (Kempers). Throw in Julia Kauffman, the Helzbergs, the Blochs, and some real estate titans. Others who have big investments in Kansas City like the Hunts.

Wherever it is located, move Midwest Research Institute and the Stower's Institute adjacent to the campus, and have university faculty crossover with appointments at these institutions.

I still think Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences is a good candidate for expansion into this type of institution. It is a private university. It is already Missouri's largest medical school. It already has the medical and biosciences part started. There is a lot of real estate around that campus where more buildings could be constructed. Housing Authority apartments near there could be purchased for on-campus housing. The vast majority of the Paseo West/Jazz Hill neighborhood is light industrial, and could be completely redeveloped for education, research, housing, and spin-off companies. There is plenty of space to build parking garages.

Independence Avenue is slated for a possible streetcar extension. There is freeway access nearby to I-35/29, I-70, and 71/49 highways. There might be a future extension of 24 Highway bypass from 291 through the East Bottoms. KCUMB is right in the center of the Metro.

Having a big university there would help the River Market, P&L, and Jazz districts a lot, since they would attract students.

Students and university employees tend to live close the university, so that would boost population near downtown and in the Old Northeast.

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... er#p509816

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Re: Official: 87th Street Bioscience Park

I would have preferred to see Jim Stowers, and his partners, invest in creating a mixed use bioscience park some place like Paseo West/Jazz Hill, mixing the offices, research space, and housing there. It would completely change this neighborhood from light industrial to mixed use, and benefit downtown and the City overall. It would be closer to mass transit, and be more urban in nature, which would probably appeal more to younger bioscience professionals than a more suburban location.

Built out, they are talking about 4 million square feet, which is about building an equivalent in space of One Kansas City Place four times.

Done right, it could have mixed education into the project with Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences, and UMKC medical and dental schools on Hospital Hill. Such a large-scale private investment of $1.3 billion would probably resulted in a streetcar line spur partially down Independence Avenue in the future.

That sort of investment would have had a much bigger and longer-term effect on Kansas City than the near-Bannister location.

Other developers would probably start building housing nearby, and it would certainly jump-start the downtown new housing market because there would be a lot of people who could afford apartments in new buildings.

If a few years ago, Jim Stowers had gone to Neil Patterson and said: "I'd like to do this and I'd like Cerner to invest in the neighborhood as well. It's close to your present campus, and near where all our local interstates merge, so workers from all parts of the city can get here easily. Let's do it together and change this City for the better."

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=495874#p495874

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[url]Re: Cities Compete in Hipness Battle to Attract Young

Thunderbird is a little known university outside of business circles. However, it is one of the best schools in the country. My college advisor at MU advised me to go there when I was finishing up at MU, and planning a move to Phoenix. I'd never heard of the place when he mentioned it. Anyway, my best friend and roommate at the time went to work for McDonnell-Douglas Helicopter (now Boeing) and they sent him to Thunderbird to get a masters, and paid for it.

I've been thinking for awhile that the logical candidate might be Kansas City University on Independence Avenue and Paseo. It used to be called the Kansas City Osteopathic College I think before they changed the name. It's mostly medically-oriented right now, but I think I read they hope to widen its scope. I think it would be a great place to start a university biosciences center and consortium to tie in with the biosciences research industry Kansas City is attempting to develop. The area around the campus is ripe for redevelopment and there is room to build a lot of additional campus buildings south of Independence Avenue along the Paseo corridor. There is also a lot of cheap housing in the area for students to rent. It's on a bus line, near major freeways and is very centrally-located to the entire metro.

It wouldn't have the problems expanding like UMKC does in their own neighborhood. An expanded campus could go south and follow Admiral and E. 8th St. west spreading towards downtown. Quite frankly, I'd love to see a big campus develop all the way between Woodland and Harrison south to the freeway.

The University could take over all the low-income housing projects on its north side, north of Independence and Forest, and down Paseo by the freeway for campus housing. The current residents could then be spread around the city into smaller housing situations where poverty wouldn't be grouped into an entire neighborhood. In fact, I'd rather see HUD renovate lots of older homes and independent apartment buildings for that purpose.

There are even a lot of big old houses nearby that could be renovated for fraternities and sororities.

Having a large student population there would also stimulate Independence Avenue around Prospect to become a college neighborhood hub. There's a fair amount of parkland nearby for recreation and sports.

Any new university shouldn't be only oriented to biosciences and medicine though. There should be study programs in engineering, geology, architecture, business management, accounting, communications, technology, science, law, politics, international relations, language, physics, math, study of space, flight-training school, computer systems, animal sciences, manufacturing management, etc. They could even have specialized programs in alternative energy development, conservation, pollution management, and ecology. The faculty wouldn't be drawn from state schools like MU or KU, but the big prestigious national and world universities.

It should have an impressive sounding name like Kansas City Institute for Technology and Science, or Kansas City Polytechnic University.

It might be better if it wasn't a state school so it wouldn't have to deal with University of Missouri system dramas. It would need a couple of huge benefactors. Jim Stowers, are you listening? Kauffman Foundation, Cerner, or the dudes from Garmin.[/url]

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=200774#p200774

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Re: Cities Compete in Hipness Battle to Attract Young

Kansas City's attempt to create a biosciences industry should also focus on placing the epicenter of the industry in the RiverMarket-Crossroads-Plaza corridor, but preferably in or near downtown. A biosciences campus near Kansas City University would be a start; And around Truman Medical Center, Children's Mercy, and St. Lukes/Stowers Institute. Another aspect to this would be constructing new housing along Paseo south from Independence Avenue, and west along Admiral Boulevard.

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=199472#p199472

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Re: 2012 Downtown Housing Report

I wish the City would establish a public redevelopment authority to start buying up parcels in the Paseo West/Jazz Hill neighborhood bounded by Paseo on the east, I-70 on the south, Independence Avenue on the north and the I-35 Loop on the west. I think there should be a long-term plan to redevelop that neighborhood into high-density residential and mixed use office and retail. One might also create some type of plan to draw software development, robotics, nanotechnology, animal research, biotechnology and medical research-related enterprises to the neighborhood to create an employment base.

This neighborhood should no longer be light industrial. Downtown residential is needed, and once the Loop, River Market, Columbus Park and Crossroads have started reaching their residential potential, the City needs to have Paseo West/Jazz Hill ready to be developed.

The City should start doing this right now because of the extended time it takes to assemble parcels and clear lots; come up with a development plan; find developers; and get community stakeholders assembled. We are talking about a 20-year development cycle.

The goal there should be a high-density walkable neighborhood--designed on a European model--adjacent to the downtown loop that mixes office, retail, education, housing, and research. The neighborhood is basically a clean-slate opportunity with exception of a few historic, already-renovated apartment buildings along Paseo; the former Masonic Hall, a former historic fire department station, and four historic church/synagogue buildings.

The goal should be to create a high-quality neighborhood and structures to completely change the image of the area near Paseo Boulevard. That artery was intended to be a major spine through the City. We need to return it to a more affluent and desirable corridor.

Many large parcels exist there and below-grade parking garages and large blocks could help to hide garage parking for area buildings. This helps avoid parking gaps between buildings, and creates a streetwall and seemless street experience. The south edge along I-70 could host larger parking garages for the neighborhood, and provide a shield for the neighborhood against freeway traffic, and could also host larger towers with smaller-buildings in the interior of the neighborhood that provide a more pedestrian street experience.

http://forum.kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?p=495339#p495339



University of Kansas City BioVillage

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Re: Bioscience park showdown?

IBM, MU push KC-region genomics research

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... a=e_du_pap

I wish that the central core near downtown was benefitting more from this bioscience initiative. I've been thinking that the City should create a bioscience redevelopment zone on Jazz Hill around the intersection of Independence Avenue and The Paseo--across from the University of Kansas City. There are lots of vacant parcels around there, or ones that could be easily redeveloped. The City could do something similar to what Liberty is doing by buying up parcels there, and giving them away to bioscience developments and also freezing property taxes for 25 years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/ ... yPaseo.jpg

[GRID]

Awesome project. Very happy that Cerner may step up and do this.

But.....

Without a large residential component, this will do NOTHING for South Kansas City. May as well build it downtown and add to critical mass there if this is not a more mixed use and game changing type project that would help stabilize SKC.

Office space alone will do as much for SKC as the office buildings at 435 and Holmes do for SKC. Nothing.

[FangKC]

Regarding the NKC campus, it was originally built in the late eighties as a northland corporate woods. It was called Rock Creek office park. Cerner moved in later. As for saying it is good Cerner does not go DT because of lack of transit is a sweet lemon idea. There could be even more pressing transit issues at Bannister. 435 already carries more autos on its south loop than any other freeway. I can just hear the call in a few years to reconstruct the grandview triangle interchange so even more cars can fit into it and the Cerner people can get home to JoCo easier. When I lived at the View there were quite a few Cerner employees resident there, but then you can see the NKC campus from the View.

My point about mass transit had to do with dealing with parking issues. Three Trails has the room for surface parking. My point was downtown didn't have parking for that many additional workers without having to build new parking garages, or have more extensive mass transit (streetcar, commuter rail) already in place so that so many parking garages, or worse, surface parking lots, would be needed.

My fear is that had Cerner tried to bring so many additional workers to a downtown setting, their default would have been to build big parking garages and create dead blocks to accommodate to many employees. We aren't talking about 1-3000 new workers. We are talking about up to 15,000 over a period of time.

The point was made that downtown could absorb that many--I think by Pash. Perhaps, but not in a centralized location like Cerner would probably want where employees worked in one or two large towers. Look at the IRS facility near Union Station that added around 5,000 workers in that facility. They had to build a mammoth garage in the building, and another one across the street in the Union Station parking lot.

http://tinyurl.com/pu7xmxk

This is how the IRS facility would look superimposed over the East Village. This is just the new addition and associated garages--not including the former Post Office Building that is part of the complex, and where some of the workers are.

Keep in the mind the plan to add up to 1000 federal workers downtown--eventually in a new GSA building in the same area. With that building, and its' associated parking as well, there would be no room left in the East Village to add housing. It would be several blocks of mammoth buildings and dead blocks with probably no retail or housing. There would be little vitality or street life--especially after work hours.

[KCMax]

TIF Commission advances $4.3B Cerner campus

A $4.3 billion game-changer for South Kansas City advanced Wednesday, when a local economic development agency recommended approval of a $1.635 billion incentive plan for Cerner Corp.'s proposed redevelopment of the former Bannister Mall area.

[Eon Blue]

Council committee endorses Cernerhenge TIF:

http://m.kansascity.com/kcstar/db_41474 ... d=C67lQKTc

[mgsports]

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18186245 ... n=LoopNews A future Wal-Mart for sale.

[pharmd]

[longviewmo]

Except it's not a Walmart nor will it ever be. It's the old Builder's Square that Walmart's been using as a warehouse.

[mgsports]

Yes but it looks like a store.

[mistervinix]

Except it's not a Walmart nor will it ever be. It's the old Builder's Square that Walmart's been using as a warehouse.

Not to mention the image in the listing is an illustration, not the actual building. Great way to misrepresent, Walmart.

[flyingember]

Yes but it looks like a store.

yeah, not a walmart store though.

[GRID]

Sure wish this was a more comprehensive mixed use and urban development. I guess beggars can't be choosers, but this will do nothing for south kc. I'm not sure it's worth the tax investment myself although if you don't do it here, Cerner will do the same thing in Kansas or something.

REALLY sucks that KC can't leverage such massive projects like this to build well planned developments or districts. If done right a project like this could gentrify and redevelop an entire part of KC. This will do nothing but put a few more cars back on the wide desolate streets and interchanges around 435 and Bannister during rush hour.

[Highlander]

Sure wish this was a more comprehensive mixed use and urban development. I guess beggars can't be choosers, but this will do nothing for south kc. I'm not sure it's worth the tax investment myself although if you don't do it here, Cerner will do the same thing in Kansas or something.

REALLY sucks that KC can't leverage such massive projects like this to build well planned developments or districts. If done right a project like this could gentrify and redevelop an entire part of KC. This will do nothing but put a few more cars back on the wide desolate streets and interchanges around 435 and Bannister during rush hour.

I have little hope that this project will have much of a positive impact on the area. Even if it's done right (and there is much room for improvement in the current plans), KC is just too small of a metro to support unlimited business center/commercial nodes. The metro already has DT, the Plaza and College Blvd and several smaller business centers scattered around the area. I don't think we have the resources to gentrify a low income suburban community. We've barely made inroads in the urban city center which is much more the national trend. The area is so depressed that I suspect the Cerner project will just sit there for years as an office park island in a sea of lower income housing.