TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! THE BIG 12 IS DEAD! MAYBE!

[NDTeve]

Yeah because MU was being held down academically in the Big 12....I'm sure that's why MU finished 8th.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... ig-12.html

[KCPowercat]

I am not talking about now but in the future if or when MU and/or Neb and/or UT and/or OK leave the conference.  And I think it is not if but when.

that's fine but that hasn't happened so at this point, they are playing for a championship on the same "level" of a conference.

[Boognish]

Yeah because MU was being held down academically in the Big 12....I'm sure that's why MU finished 8th.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... ig-12.html

While definitely amusing, I have two issues with this comment.

One, MoMan didn't imply that Missouri was being held back academically, simply that it would help them academically and financially, which is hard to argue.

Two, the schools ranked 4th through 9th are all within the margin of error of each other and should pretty much be looked at as equals.

The snark just comes off as sour grapes.

[KCPowercat]

Yeah it was just a joke...I hate those ranking things as they are biased towards certain types of schools.....and i'm fully aware my school ranks very low in those ratings.

[Highlander]

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[KC-wildcat]

It's hard to argue that there is a potential academic gain, the argument is whether or not that gain will be large and tangible enough to offset the athletic setback which I believe will be substantial and essentially similar to a program coming off a very stiff NCAA sanction.  Loss of established recruiting areas, probably loss of an up and coming basketball coach, loss of rivalries, poorer overall athletic conference.  There is no upside at all on the athletic side of things.  There may be more shared money, but if you cannot recruit, it won't do you much good.   

And on top of all of that, the Big XII television package will be restructured in 2011.  Kind of a big gamble to take just because you can't beat Texas. 

[phxcat]

Yeah it was just a joke...I hate those ranking things as they are biased towards certain types of schools.....and i'm fully aware my school ranks very low in those ratings.

What is frustrating about those rankings, and about the fact that they seem to matter at all when it comes to athletics, is that graduate schools have absolutely nothing to do with undergraduate quality, which is what the majority of students (and what all graduate students used to be) are- if anything, there may even be an indirect relationship between the strength of a school's graduate programs and of its undergraduate programs, as emphasis tends to be placed on the graduate programs, ignoring the undergrads, and professors tend to see undergrads as annoying obstacles that they must endure (or assign to their GAs) in order to get on with their research.   

As for the superconference idea, I could really see the possibility of a Big XII- Pac10 alliance (which would forestall any chances of the Pac 10 poaching CU) potentially bringing in more money than would the Big Ten-sixteen.  A Western Alliance network would reach the largest and fastest growing parts of the country, and allow live programming from early (Big XII) to very late (West Coast), and it would allow for multiple big time non-con games each week, so that each network could carry one.  The money there could be huge, and could easily end up making MU and NU more (even with and uneven split) than they will make from the Big Ten.

[phxcat]

It's hard to argue that there is a potential academic gain, the argument is whether or not that gain will be large and tangible enough to offset the athletic setback which I believe will be substantial and essentially similar to a program coming off a very stiff NCAA sanction.  Loss of established recruiting areas, probably loss of an up and coming basketball coach, loss of rivalries, poorer overall athletic conference.  There is no upside at all on the athletic side of things.  There may be more shared money, but if you cannot recruit, it won't do you much good.   

Plus that.  The Big XII is better than the Big Ten, but with 14 or16 teams, it will be that much tougher for anyone (individually) to win that conference.

[Highlander]

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[aknowledgeableperson]

they haven't thought through the tedium of watching a Mizzou - Minnesota football game or a Mizzou - Northwestern basketball game.

Maybe there is the excitement of watching Mu plays teams they don't normally play or haven't played against for some time.

Many of the people I know who attend games or follow MU it isn't who they are playing (except for for KU) that is important but just wanting to watch MU play.

[Highlander]

Maybe there is the excitement of watching Mu plays teams they don't normally play or haven't played against for some time.

I doubt it.  Longstanding tradition in a very old conference is hard to overcome.  I didn't really care all that much about watching Mizzou play the Texas teams with the exception of UT in basketball from time to time. 

[phxcat]

*a substantial number of Mizzou fans want this solely for the one-upmanship rights over KU and some are gleeful at the damage such a move could potentially do to the Big XII and ultimately KU's basketball program.

I was just reading over at the Phog (lots of threads on realignment there) and I see the exact same sentiment there towards KSU- people gleefully hoping that they are picked up by an expanded Pac Ten and K-State being left behind in a mid major league, never to trouble KU again (though you can see in a lot of these posts that a large part of this sentiment is the fact that K-State has (though they wont admit it) a better football program and has been and will be a major thorn in their side in building a football program.)

I am definately no fan of the super conference.  At some point, you have to say what's the point in being in a conference with teams you play every 3rd year in football.  Coming into a conference that size when you have no natural rivals makes it very difficult to get anything going.  My guess is fans like the idea of Mizzou in the Big X (some for some pretty stupid reason*) but they haven't thought through the tedium of watching a Mizzou - Minnesota football game or a Mizzou - Northwestern basketball game.  I can see fan support dropping like a stone as the familar rivals no longer show up in Columbia. 

The more I think of it, the more I think that the 16 team conference (more than just the difficulty of winning the conference), even with revenue sharing, would be worse for the non-power teams.  I could really see the more peripheral schools like those west of Ohio (except ND if they join- which would make it worse) and north/east of PA getting lost in the shuffle.  Who is in the Big East in basketball?  About half of the league is highly visible, the other half is nearly invisible.    That is not the best analogy in the world, as the Big East is a bit cobbled together, but it will be very hard for games to get on the prime TV slots if you are not Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State or Notre Dame when there are 16 teams in the league to share the slots with!

[jdubwaldo]

I doubt it.  Longstanding tradition in a very old conference is hard to overcome.

Do you mean the Big 12 as a "very old conference"?  Not really.....

Big Ten 1949, arguably sooner

Big 12 1994

Wikipedia, the source of all things official. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference

[AJoD]

Do you mean the Big 12 as a "very old conference"?  Not really.....

Not to speak for Highlander, but I would miss the familiar rivals.  Of 8 conference games, Nebraska only plays 2/yr against TX schools and only misses one old Big 8 school (OU or OSU) in two year cycles.  While the OU rivalry loss was lamentable, I still like the historical context of the old Big 8.  All the Mizzou beatdowns; random close games with KU; fluky losses to Iowa St....all those things bring meaning to each season.  Would games against Michigan and Ohio St. be fun?  Yeah, I guess, but a conference schedule of, say,

Missouri, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, Northwestern, Penn St, and Notre Dame...just seems so wrong.

I'm not saying there's a great option out there, it's hard to see what the Big XII has going for it.

But geez, I grew up hating the Big 10.  I thought almost everyone in Big 12 country hated at the Big 10.  At least I could muster some respect for the SEC because of demonstrable on-field quality, sweet deep south football tradition, and uneven basketball/Olympic sport successes/depth.  The Big 10 is snotty and dumb.  It may have been the worst thing about living in Chicago.  I can't believe how many crap matchups they'd throw out there.  They might show Wisconsin-Indiana instead of Texas-OU.  It was ridiculous.

I do love the irrational disdain that sports can engender.

[trailerkid]

good riddance and good luck.

[MoMan]

The snark just comes off as sour grapes.

Bingo.

Mizzou, Nebraska, and Colorado need to do what's best for their schools.  Just as Texas always has, and just as Kansas State, Iowa State, and Kansas would if given the opportunity.

The move is a no-brainer academically--Google CIC if you have doubts.  And from an athletic perspective, games against Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and possibly ND (not to mention Nebraska and Illinois) seem every bit as attractive as games with Texas Tech, Colorado, and Baylor.

Plus, if Mizzou winds up in the Big X and if Kansas can manage to remain in a BCS conference once the the shifting landscape has settled, I'm sure the two schools will still find a way to schedule each other in football and basketball.

[KCMax]

I am definately no fan of the super conference.  At some point, you have to say what's the point in being in a conference with teams you play every 3rd year in football.  Coming into a conference that size when you have no natural rivals makes it very difficult to get anything going.  My guess is fans like the idea of Mizzou in the Big X (some for some pretty stupid reason*) but they haven't thought through the tedium of watching a Mizzou - Minnesota football game or a Mizzou - Northwestern basketball game.  I can see fan support dropping like a stone as the familar rivals no longer show up in Columbia.   

*a substantial number of Mizzou fans want this solely for the one-upmanship rights over KU and some are gleeful at the damage such a move could potentially do to the Big XII and ultimately KU's basketball program.

Yea, I think Mizzou fans like being wooed (who wouldn't?) and like the attention of being the favored darling of the Big Ten. I can't blame them for that. But I think those in charge need to think this through and consider what is in the best long-term interest of the university instead of trying to grab a quick short-term buck.

I do love the irrational disdain that sports can engender.

Ha! This forum demonstrates that all the time!

[NDTeve]

Do you mean the Big 12 as a "very old conference"?  Not really.....

Big Ten 1949, arguably sooner

Big 12 1994

Wikipedia, the source of all things official. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference

As AJoD said...I think he was talking about Big 6 and Big 8.

[WSPanic]

Bingo.


Plus, if Mizzou winds up in the Big X and if Kansas can manage to remain in a BCS conference once the the shifting landscape has settled, I'm sure the two schools will still find a way to schedule each other in football and basketball.

I imagine they'll keep it going, but I wonder if people will care as much over time. I think the lipservice will always be there - but I don't think there's any denying that there is more to a rivalry when both teams are in the same division of the same conference. And I'm much more prone to pay attention to an MU/ISU game when I know it effects the conference - not so much MU/Purdue, etc. MU fans will say the same about KU vs any Pac 10 team - and be correct - if that's the way things go.

As mentioned above - it just sucks for the Big 8 rivalries.

[beautyfromashes]

If Gary Forsee (along with the Missouri board) approve this move then it will be official that everything he has ever done has turned to shit and he will be the worst Kansas City resident ever.