Common thinking on this forum

aknowledgeableperson · Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:25 pm

Interesting deal for the Cowboys, and citizens of Arlington. Some comparisons.

Sales tax KC none Arlington .5%

Hotel tax KC 1.875% on a $80 room charge
Arlington 2% on a $80 room charge

Car rental tax KC 11.67% on a $30 car rental
Arlington 5% on a $30 car rental

Numbers can say anything you want them to say, just pick the right numbers. Have a higher or lower room charge or car rental fee.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:27 pm

I believe the football stadium built for one team to use a huge majority of the time should have more private money from that team. Same here.

The point about Dallas/Arlington was will Enterprise fight it? Not who got the better deal (by those numbers, we did)....they are 2 different animals IMO. The citizens of Arlington and the citizens of KC will pay a low % of those fees/taxes on hotels and cars.

mean- · Post by **mean-** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:31 pm

The point about Dallas/Arlington was will Enterprise fight it?

It will be interesting to watch. BUT whether they do or not fight in TX doesn't really ascribe any particular motive to their fight here.

Post by **mean** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:49 pm

Qwest Center = 68% public funding

Yes, and of the seven (they are clearly insane) public funding sources, two aren't generating the amount of money the studies promised:

KC Star wrote:The mayor was forced to slash $2 million annually from the city capital improvement budget over the next 10 years and has delayed construction of a $27 million police-fire training facility.

That has bought the city a couple of years, Festersen said. But it's likely that a general property tax increase will be necessary in 2007.

We can expect a similar scenario if we experience a shortfall. People like me, who supported the arena in a gush of optimism, are going to feel burned.

Which isn't to say there WILL be a shortfall, but let's at least admit that the mayor's revenue numbers are fairly optimistic...

We'll just have to see what happens. Either way, I am glad we're only doing 57% rather than 68% or 100%. I still maintain that we could have gotten it down to 30-40% if we'd held out a year or two, though.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:20 pm

Which isn't to say there WILL be a shortfall, but let's at least admit that the mayor's revenue numbers are fairly optimistic...

what's this based on? What revenue numbers? I haven't seen any numbers published stating the revenues from hotels or rental car fees. Even if I had I would really have no way to know if they were "optimistic"....how did you come to that? Just looking for information I may not have.

If Enterprise doesn't fight a 5% charge in Dallas but did fight a $4 fee here what reason would it be that they fought it here? Only care for their businesses in KC?

aknowledgeableperson · Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:02 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Which isn't to say there WILL be a shortfall, but let's at least admit that the mayor's revenue numbers are fairly optimistic...
what's this based on? What revenue numbers? I haven't seen any numbers published stating the revenues from hotels or rental car fees. Even if I had I would really have no way to know if they were "optimistic"....how did you come to that? Just looking for information I may not have.

The numbers are found in the Downtown Arena Funding Plan found in a posting. They anticipate $3,375,000 annually from the Hotel/Motel License Fee, or 2,250,000 room nights. $7,000,000 from the Car Rental License Fee, or 2,000,000 days of car rentals. And finally $4,000,000 from User Fees/Contract Revenue. An assumption here but contract revenue may be the naming rights. Say there is no NBA or NHL team then Sprint pays $1,600,000 I believe. That leaves $2,400,000 in User Fees. Hard to say what the average ticket price would be for the arena because that depends on the event mix, but it would be safe to say it wouldn't exceed $40.00. For the most part only NBA/NHL and concert tickets are priced over $50.00. So $40.00 ticket price would get you $.90 User Fee per ticket (User Fee is to be 2.25% of the ticket price I believe). $2,400,000 needed divided by $.90 means there would have to be over 2.6 million tickets sold.
Without a NBA or NHL team it is quite possible that the funding sources would not generate the revenue needed for the debt service payments.
If any numbers used above is incorrect please feel free to provide the correct one. Want to get this correct.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:30 pm

I have to agree with KCP - even tho I'm a major doubting Thomas on all this stuff.

You could make ANY excuse not to do anything in life. Too risky! they all say. Frankly, I don't care if they want to tax me a couple bucks a month out here in JOCO - that arena is something I want.

I'm tired of having firemen get higher pay from tax hikes, and spending tons of my property tax on education (when I have no children that benefit) It's about time my taxes go towards something I AM interested in!

And if the public pays FIFTY milliion out of pocket.....is that a big deal for what we'll gain? Hell no.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:31 pm

glancing over it, that sounds about right....I would put the average ticket price a bit north of $40 but Especially if we put those fees on AFTER ticketmaster's fees

those numbers are obviously fluid as of now.

aknowledgeableperson · Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:43 pm

KCPowercat wrote:glancing over it, that sounds about right....I would put the average ticket price a bit north of $40 but Especially if we put those fees on AFTER ticketmaster's fees

those numbers are obviously fluid as of now.

User Fees are on the ticket prices, not including TM fees. TM fees are not uniform for each ticket sold, even if they are the same price. Outlet one fee, with credit card another fee, phone and internet another fee, box office fee at arena a different fee.
Really, I am being generous with the $40 average ticket price. Unless of course they have 50 concerts with average ticket prices of $75 and 10,000 tickets sold for each one.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:49 pm

it was a joke akp, lighten up....this isn't life or death.

Yeah look at concert prices, cheap seats, $50.

aknowledgeableperson · Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:58 pm

KCPowercat wrote:it was a joke akp, lighten up....this isn't life or death.

Yeah look at concert prices, cheap seats, $50.

I thought I was pretty lite. Didn't call you a *&^)(#$ mother !@^%$ did I? Maybe you need to lighten up too. It is getting late and its been a long day.

Concert prices and cheap tickets at $50. That is why I very seldom go to concerts now, once every few years. Been to many through the years, paid and worked, that it takes a special one for me now. Have seen just about every one I have wanted to see, some more than once. And I won't go to a NBA or NHL game either, well maybe if given a free ticket - and don't forget the parking pass.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:35 am

If Enterprise doesn't fight a 5% charge in Dallas but did fight a $4 fee here what reason would it be that they fought it here? Only care for their businesses in KC?

Obviously you'd have to ask Enterprise. But the paranoid answer, that they "just want to keep us down" ain't right.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:49 pm

i dont' buy the "keep us down" either but it was a great way to get people out to vote.

I have asked enterprise, they send back form letters. W/o any sources I'd have to say they pull more cash from Dallas than KC?