Chiefs

[schugg]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,144951

[phuqueue]

the chiefs got what they have coveted foor a quarter century, a franchise quarterback. i am sick and tired of hearing that cassel did what he did in new england based on new england being new england. BULLSHIT. randy moss played with the raiders, what quarterbacks did he make look great in oakland?? cassel had some great games in new england last year, and new england is a lot more than randy moss. they as a matter of fact won 3 super bowls without randy moss, zero with the man. they won three super bowls with zero talented receivers. three. and yeah, it was tom brady. a sixth rounder, meaning 31 other teams passed on the greatest quarterback in the nfl in rounds 1-5. it is about a well coached team.

It's not just about Moss, it's about the whole team.  The Chiefs don't have an o-line to speak of and a mediocre rushing attack.  The defense hemorrhages points.  Cassel did an excellent job for the Patriots, but there he was playing for a team with a lot of great players around him.  The running game ranked 6th in the NFL and he had a defense that would always keep the game within reach for him.  The Chiefs were 31st in the league last year in total defense and gave up 27.5 PPG.  Is Cassel a guy who can consistently lead the offense to four touchdowns, particularly when opposing defenses know they don't have to take Larry Johnson too seriously anymore?  I don't know, and I don't think there's any real evidence one way or the other.

cassel is a serious upgrade over tyler thigpen. a serious upgrade. how many teams were serious about getting cassel from new england this offseason? a boatload. shit, it was the top story on espn off and on for 3 weeks. the man just got franchised at 14+m. did thiggy get that? no one in their right mind wants tyler thigpen, a lot of teams wanted cassel. it is an awesome upgrade. he does need better players to be a good quarterback, no shit. who doesnt?? kurt warner 3 superbowls with all pro receivers, zero without.

Their actual stats aren't that far apart, with the huge difference being that Thigpen played on one of the worst teams in the league and Cassel got just about the cushiest QB job around.  Cassel may very well be far beyond Thigpen, but you can't really say that if you're just basing it on their performances last season.  How many teams were interested in Damon Huard after he kept the Chiefs alive a couple years ago?  Pro sports in general and the NFL in particular is just a huge copycat industry.  Cassel allowed a great team to stay good.  It's no shock that other teams became interested in him as a result.  And just like Huard, if he proves himself to be nothing special after all, they aren't going to care anymore.

[KansasCityCraka]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,144951

I really don't think anything can be done about it. He was a starter for 1 year and didn't put up amazing numbers. He did put up respectable numbers but they weren't so great that the Pats may have demanded a 1st rounder. The Pats had an offer for the 12th overall pick, but even if there was something fishy about the deal. The Pats are just going to say "We already had 3 picks in the top 58 and we would not be able to afford getting a high 1st round pick so we settled on a high 2nd round pick". The talent in the bottom half of the 1st and high second is really the same, they just have to pay them less, so why not do it?

[aknowledgeableperson]

It's not just about Moss, it's about the whole team.  The Chiefs don't have an o-line to speak of and a mediocre rushing attack.  The defense hemorrhages points. 

That was in the past.  You have no knowledge, or even anyone else, of what the Chiefs of 2009 will be like.  Will they make the playoffs?  Probably not but they will be better, or so I believe.  And part of that betterment will be because of the moves of the new team leadership and players they secure like these two ex-Pats.

[WSPanic]

Their actual stats aren't that far apart, with the huge difference being that Thigpen played on one of the worst teams in the league and Cassel got just about the cushiest QB job around. 

Again, I'm not sold on Cassel as the end-all/be-all of NFL QBs, but he had a much better year than Thigpen. 1000+ more yards; 10th in the league vs 27th for QB rating; 10% higher on completions.

To your point, it's impossible to quantify based on how bad the Chiefs team was, but they were pretty far apart statistically.

[kcdcchef]

Again, I'm not sold on Cassel as the end-all/be-all of NFL QBs, but he had a much better year than Thigpen. 1000+ more yards; 10th in the league vs 27th for QB rating; 10% higher on completions.

To your point, it's impossible to quantify based on how bad the Chiefs team was, but they were pretty far apart statistically.

you are just provoking him to do a mile long post with 400 different kinds of stats none of us care about.

[im2kull]

Again, I'm not sold on Cassel as the end-all/be-all of NFL QBs, but he had a much better year than Thigpen. 1000+ more yards; 10th in the league vs 27th for QB rating; 10% higher on completions.

To your point, it's impossible to quantify based on how bad the Chiefs team was, but they were pretty far apart statistically.

Gotta remember how many games the chiefs offense was playing from behind in, or trying to keep pace in...due to the lack luster defense.

On the other hand, can you imagine if we get Curry?  Imagine having curry and DJ playing in a 3-4, that'd be one fast defense!

[KCMax]

It's not just about Moss, it's about the whole team.  The Chiefs don't have an o-line to speak of and a mediocre rushing attack.  The defense hemorrhages points.  Cassel did an excellent job for the Patriots, but there he was playing for a team with a lot of great players around him.  The running game ranked 6th in the NFL and he had a defense that would always keep the game within reach for him.  The Chiefs were 31st in the league last year in total defense and gave up 27.5 PPG.  Is Cassel a guy who can consistently lead the offense to four touchdowns, particularly when opposing defenses know they don't have to take Larry Johnson too seriously anymore?  I don't know, and I don't think there's any real evidence one way or the other.

You don't think Scott Pioli is done this offseason do you? I'm pretty confident he's going to be looking to majorly upgrade all of those areas of concern you listed.

I'm with im2kull, that Curry kid looks very impressive.

[im2kull]

I'm with im2kull, that Curry kid looks very impressive.

I think he *might* be just a lil overinflated...draft value wise...I could see him being much more of a late 1st round pick had there been more players with hype like Derrick Johnson or Mario Williams, but there's no-one else that really stands out on defense in the draft.  There's a few corners..but blah...who cares..they weren't super great this year.  That's why I have curry so high...I saw him in a few games and liked his nose for the ball.  I think he could have issues with wrapping up in the NFL, but who else would you draft in his place this year?  Not much else out there, talent wise, for a #3 pick (Defense wise).

If we go on offense, then its a completely different story.  I would LOVE to get Maclin or Crabtree.  And thankfully I-throw-5-picks-a-game-(two times this year alone) Matthew Stafford, and I'm-the-king-Mark-Sanchez, are both off the table now.  I think they're both overly hyped, and have NOTHING special to offer in the NFL.  Next years QB class is going to be amazing, this years...not so much.  Blame the picks on Staffords lack of a supporting reciever class, but if memory serves me right he had some Knoshawn Moreno guy on the same side of the ball, every game of the year, keeping at least 8 defenders in the box.  If you can't succeed in college with that kind of a RB prescense, then you WONT succeed in the NFL.

[WSPanic]

Gotta remember how many games the chiefs offense was playing from behind in, or trying to keep pace in...due to the lack luster defense.

Which probably inflated his passing numbers beyond what they would have been on a good team.

[im2kull]

Which probably inflated his passing numbers beyond what they would have been on a good team.

yeah, pressure passing and having opponents defenses key in on the Pass (not to mention our lack of any running game..even under normal circumstances last year) really inflated Thigpens numbers.  Go get a new argument WaSP.

[Maitre D]

I think he *might* be just a lil overinflated...draft value wise...I could see him being much more of a late 1st round pick had there been more players with hype like Derrick Johnson or Mario Williams, but there's no-one else that really stands out on defense in the draft.  There's a few corners..but blah...who cares..they weren't super great this year.  That's why I have curry so high...I saw him in a few games and liked his nose for the ball.  I think he could have issues with wrapping up in the NFL, but who else would you draft in his place this year?  Not much else out there, talent wise, for a #3 pick (Defense wise).

Curry just had a monster combine, in addition to being an All-American player in college.  He's a top-10 pick any year, any draft.

If we go on offense, then its a completely different story.  I would LOVE to get Maclin or Crabtree. 

Glad you're not running the team.  Maclin won' make it thru an entire NFL season and Crabtree just had surgery himself.  No way does either justify the 3rd overall.  I'd take neither in the top-10.

And thankfully I-throw-5-picks-a-game-(two times this year alone) Matthew Stafford, and I'm-the-king-Mark-Sanchez, are both off the table now.  I think they're both overly hyped, and have NOTHING special to offer in the NFL.  Next years QB class is going to be amazing, this years...not so much.  Blame the picks on Staffords lack of a supporting reciever class, but if memory serves me right he had some Knoshawn Moreno guy on the same side of the ball, every game of the year, keeping at least 8 defenders in the box.  If you can't succeed in college with that kind of a RB prescense, then you WONT succeed in the NFL.

Stafford is a bit overrated but he does play in the best conf, with the best defenses.  Besides, pro scouts are rarely all wrong at the same time so there's probably a lot of talent there.  But he couldn't even win Texas player of the year in High School.  Lost out to some short guy QB-ing at Kansas right now...

[im2kull]

Curry just had a monster combine, in addition to being an All-American player in college.   He's a top-10 pick any year, any draft.

There's a big difference between a top 10 pick, and a 3 and up pick.  Why else do you think there's draft day trades where teams swap the #2 overall and #8 overall?  Sure he's a top 10 pick, and this year he deserves to go that high, but you can't convince me that in a draft like the 05' or 06' class he would be the "Cream of the crop".  He'd be a 5-10 guy, not a 1, 2, or 3 guy.

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Maclin won' make it thru an entire NFL season and Crabtree just had surgery himself.  No way does either justify the 3rd overall.  I'd take neither in the top-10.

I'll let your own quote speak for itself. (See below)

Besides, pro scouts are rarely all wrong at the same time so there's probably a lot of talent there    (Matt Stafford).  

P.S. - You can't say who will, and who won't make it through an entire NFL season...when they haven't even taken a snap in the NFL.  Don't make assumptions.  Remember Reggie Bush, he was supposed to be the Savior of New Orleans...where's he been the last few seasons...on the bench perhaps?  On IR?  Maybe?  Either way their offense has been top-tier without him...so much for the superman theory!

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Stafford is a bit overrated but he does play in the best conf, with the best defenses.   Besides, pro scouts are rarely all wrong at the same time so there's probably a lot of talent there.   But he couldn't even win Texas player of the year in High School.   Lost out to some short guy QB-ing at Kansas right now...

Right...best defensive conference that Florida trampled over?  You know who held Florida to the least amount of points all year?  OU? Maybe?  That's right...The University of Oklahoma, and the last time I checked they weren't exactly part of the SEC, but maybe I'm wrong?

[phuqueue]

Again, I'm not sold on Cassel as the end-all/be-all of NFL QBs, but he had a much better year than Thigpen. 1000+ more yards; 10th in the league vs 27th for QB rating; 10% higher on completions.

To your point, it's impossible to quantify based on how bad the Chiefs team was, but they were pretty far apart statistically.

He threw for 1000 more yards, but he also started 15 of 16 games and played most of the 16th, compared to Thigpen, who played in 14 games, in two of which he threw a combined 21 pass attempts.  On top of that, Thigpen was just dreadful until he suddenly turned a corner in week 8, and from that point on he was still not on the same level as Cassel, but substantially better than his total season numbers might lead you to believe.  Of course, it's not really fair to just ignore Thigpen's crappy games, but it is important to remember that this was his first playing time in the NFL (well, and the six passes he threw in 2007) and the learning curve can be pretty steep.  From week 8 on, he threw for 2216 yards, 16 TDs, and 8 INTs (58.2% completion, 84.6 rating).  Over the same period, Cassel threw for 2598 yards, 15 TDs, 7 INTs (62% completion, 90.63 rating).  I'm willing to bet that if Cassel is playing on a team that didn't go 18-1 the previous season, his numbers take a hit, especially if the team he's playing on is coming off a 4-12 season.

I don't want to be misunderstood here, though.  I'm definitely not down on this trade.  I think that even if Cassel disappoints, it's a strong trade for the Chiefs, and if Cassel makes me eat my words, as I hope he will, it's a great trade, maybe one of the biggest steals in recent NFL history.  All I'm saying is that, taking evil Thigpen out of the equation, Cassel wasn't that much better than Tyler was and he was playing with a much better supporting cast.  The centerpiece of this trade in my mind is really Vrabel and it's kind of silly to me how he's just being looked at as a throw-in now.

You don't think Scott Pioli is done this offseason do you? I'm pretty confident he's going to be looking to majorly upgrade all of those areas of concern you listed.

Oh, I'm sure he'll do a lot more.  But it'd be an offseason for the ages if he turned a 2-14 team into something resembling the group Cassel played with last year.  I hope as much as anyone that Cassel comes out and has a Pro Bowl year, but I'm just not really holding my breath.  I think he'll be serviceable and at times even good, but not consistently great.  Which is pretty much how I'd describe Thigpen last year.

[MidWestSider]

Finally.

The Chiefs were to name Clancy Pendergast as their new defensive coordinator perhaps as soon as today.

Pendergast, 41, was the defensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals for the past five seasons. He worked with new Chiefs head coach Todd Haley for the past two years. He has also coached for the Houston Oilers, Dallas Cowboys and Cleveland Browns.

The Cardinals played multiple defensive formations last year, at times using the 3-4 and the 4-3.

[KansasCityCraka]

Finally? He has been apart of the Chiefs staff since right after Haley was hired. This was expected but I was hoping for a good Dc

[mykem]

Finally? He has been apart of the Chiefs staff since right after Haley was hired. This was expected but I was hoping for a good Dc

Yeah, I agree with that. The Cardinals defense over the past 5 years has been terrible! Wisenhunt wanted to fire him when he first arrived from Pittsburgh, but he was not allowed to. Hopefully, he can rally our D like he did in Arizona for the playoffs.

[OPIDKC]

Maybe it is just me but I seem to be noticing a trend amongst staff positions. Are people hired in the NFL for their track record anymore or is it just a big network of old time friends giving each-other jobs? This is how we ended up with Herm Edwards who never proved himself as a winning coach in the NFL. Now we are hiring this Pendergast character who has been running one of the worst defenses in the league for the past five years. I am sure this has been going on since the beginning but it is becoming more apparent to me among the Chiefs organization. Lets start hiring some people that are proven winners and not just buddies we feel sorry for. Beside that, GO CHIEFS!

[kcdcchef]

Maybe it is just me but I seem to be noticing a trend amongst staff positions. Are people hired in the NFL for their track record anymore or is it just a big network of old time friends giving each-other jobs? This is how we ended up with Herm Edwards who never proved himself as a winning coach in the NFL. 

herm took the jets to the playoffs three times, and won playoff games two different seasons. he was hardly a failure in NY. and i am happy we are starting over in kc, but i blame the present situation a whole lot more on carl than i do herm. herm said rebuild from the second he hit the door, carl talked him out of it in year one, and convinced him in year two that the team had enough tools to make another run. hardly herms fault in kc.

i think herm edwards gets another shot in the nfl, just might take a couple of years.

[NDTeve]

herm took the jets to the playoffs three times, and won playoff games two different seasons. he was hardly a failure in NY. and i am happy we are starting over in kc, but i blame the present situation a whole lot more on carl than i do herm. herm said rebuild from the second he hit the door, carl talked him out of it in year one, and convinced him in year two that the team had enough tools to make another run. hardly herms fault in kc.

i think herm edwards gets another shot in the nfl, just might take a couple of years.

Spot on.