OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

[LenexatoKCMO]

We can build thousands of condo units on the perimeter of the park - but guess what, none of those new residents are going to use the park either if they walk 200 yards down the path behind their building and it ends in the middle of nowhere with no access to any other points in the park. 

I have lived a couple blocks from the park for a couple years now - why do I rarely use it?  Its not because the perimeter lacks density.  Its not because the park lacks a botanical garden type attraction to walk to.  Its because once you walk there, there is nowhere to go - the sidewalk stops. 

[kard]

I was talking about the perimeter - there are sidewalks surrounding the park on 31st, main, Pershing - pretty much everywhere but the infamous disaster that is broadway.  In fact the only continuous pedestrian route is probably around the park - not through it.  That is the problem - the park not only needs continuous and useful paths inside of it - they need to connect to the perimeters. 

Absolutely.

As for trails inside the park, yeah, they're needed.  But due to geography, I think there would most likely be several small ones instead of long ones.  That drop from the ball fields...and south...to Broadway is just huge.  I'd love to see a way up / down it, but it might not be possible.

I still don't think there's enough density around it to "fill it."  It's either a road, government building, or single family homes on all sides of it.

We can build thousands of condo units on the perimeter of the park - but guess what, none of those new residents are going to use the park either if they walk 200 yards down the path behind their building and it ends in the middle of nowhere with no access to any other points in the park. 

I have lived a couple blocks from the park for a couple years now - why do I rarely use it?  Its not because the perimeter lacks density.  Its not because the park lacks a botanical garden type attraction to walk to.  Its because once you walk there, there is nowhere to go - the sidewalk stops. 

Mill Creek Park would have a beaten in dirt running path if there wasn't a paved one.

[kard]

I have lived a couple blocks from the park for a couple years now - why do I rarely use it?  Its not because the perimeter lacks density.  Its not because the park lacks a botanical garden type attraction to walk to.  Its because once you walk there, there is nowhere to go - the sidewalk stops. 

I agree with you, but I still think geography plays a part in that.  The park is split in to chunks.  Even if the sidewalks were completed they'd still be small'ish loops.  Kind of like the (only) nice one on the south end near the hill along Wyandotte.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I agree with you, but I still think geography plays a part in that.  The park is split in to chunks.  Even if the sidewalks were completed they'd still be small'ish loops.  Kind of like the (only) nice one on the south end near the hill along Wyandotte.

Geography would no doubt make parts of it a challenge - but the current layout is as if they just never tried. 

For instance, there is no reason why the sidewalk should end at the entry to the memorial driveway without connecting over to main, or on up to 31st.  I should be able to walk from union station to 31st through the park. 

There is no reason why there shouldn't be sidewalk(s) along broadway.  The top of the hill could be connected to broadway, even if it meant using stairs.  Stairs are better than no connection at all.  They could also put a sidewalk along the driveway that goes down to broadway - its steep, but not that steep.  From broadway their should be multiple paths to the pond and on up to the scout. 

If we take the minimal steps to provide the park with basic functionality and utility and people still don't use it, than we start talking about taking the more drastic action of selling the land off for condos.  As it is now, we don't even know if there is enough existing density and demand.

[Maitre D]

Shawnee Mission Park is a great park to compare PVP to IMO. PVP has much denser surroundings but gets used probaably 1/50 as much. Everytime I've been to SMP it's been packed with people. And they only thing people really do in that park (other than have group gatherings, something PVP should do) is bike/run/walk. Give people the opportunity to do that in PVP and it'll get used no matter how hard it is to get there.

SM Park has a huge lake, PVP doesn't, so how are they comparable?

[moderne]

I think a lot of the connectivity once in the park was abandoned and removed to discourage illicit activities.  There was once a road around the pioneer statue where it is now the jogging path.  There was a road that went up into the dog park.  On the west side there was a lower road that went down from  the BMA and almost next to SW Trafficway and over to the pond.  One of the early proposals decades ago for a science museum had it burrowed into the limestone of the park.  What type of pedestrian attracting institution could use such a space?

[aknowledgeableperson]

SM Park has a huge lake, PVP doesn't, so how are they comparable?

PVP does have a lake, or what is that body of water along Broadway?  Granted it is not a big lake for sailboats but it is something that can be utilized by the community if developed properly.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

SM Park has a huge lake, PVP doesn't, so how are they comparable?

They're both large parks with little density surrounding them. SMP has the lake to draw people to go fishing or sailing or just sit on the banks and eat dinner. PVP has the Liberty Memorial that draws people in to explore the tower or museum or sit on the steps and look at the skyline. Just because one has a huge lake and the other has a small one doesn't mean they're not comparable. The biggest difference is that SMP actually gets used because pedestrians can walk around the park on trails or safe roads.

[greentara]

I think a lot of the connectivity once in the park was abandoned and removed to discourage illicit activities.

Wow, what a dumb idea. I know it wasn't yours, moderne! Connectivity would discourage rather than encourage such activity. See Central Park's Ramble for a similar situation.

[Highlander]

McClanahan's column has led to the Star's own version of this thread being played out in the letters to the editor.  Some interesting reads:

http://www.kansascity.com/309/story/123395.html

[FangKC]

Many of the elements that made Penn Valley Park nice have been lost in time and in an attempt to speed traffic through the park.

Here is what Broadway used to look like as it went by the lake.  The tree-lined median was replaced with a concrete barrier and streetlights. Bad move.



The Promenade entrance to Penn Valley Park.  Nothing like that now.



The swimming pool and playground were taken out when Southwest Trafficway was constructed.  Putting in another public swimming pool would help. Give people another reason to go to the park.



The Santa Fe Trail marker is rather pathetic considering the effect the trail had on the development of our nation.  The City should consider building a larger, more striking monument to the Westward Expansion. Something that could be lit at night and seen on the skyline.   Perhaps they could also reconstruct some Calistoga wagons and place some bronzed oxen and horses with them.  Provide some visual clue of the trail.



It would help the park a great deal if Penn Valley Community College had some on campus housing that would bring some students residents in to use the park.

IMO, traffic is allowed to move too fast through the park.   It shouldn't be a trafficway.   Slow things down. Put in some speed bumps, and some parking facing the lake.  Take out all the lanes of traffic and put one lane going in each direction and that's it.  A drive through the park should be a pleasant experience.  If one wants to blast by the park, take Southwest Trafficway.

The lake should be reconfigured and have a walkway all around it.   It would be a good lake for remote sailboat operations.

Here's a quote I found on the KC Public Library Web site:

Kansas Citians were justly proud of their parks and boulevards. Big cities across the United States were also aware of Kansas City's accomplishments. An article written near the turn of the century by Mr. Andrew Wright Crawford, a city planning official in Philadelphia, noted:

"Of all the actual accomplishments that American cities can boast within the last 20 years, none surpasses the park and parkway system of Kansas City.

"That system, by and of itself, is making that city world famous."

http://www.kclibrary.org/localhistory/m ... iaID=35331

For a city that is famous for its' parks and boulevards, they have been allowed to fall into a disgraceful state.  Where is the pride?  Where are the local garden clubs?

Start planting some ornamental trees and flowers in the park.  Some volunteers planted tulips on Troost. The same effort needs to be done in the parks.

Kansas City, stop bragging about your parks and boulevards and actually go take a look at them -- the infastructure and the plantings, etc.  They look like crap.   Swope Park is pathetic on a grand scale.  When one enters the main gates of the park, it reminds me of some gothic tragedy.  The trees look terrible and the lawns and gardens are in terrible shape.  There is little that is beautiful about Swope Park except the natural areas that look the way they are supposed to look.  There is something foreboding and forgotten about Swope Park. There is no point in running light rail to Swope Park unless it's fixed up.

[shinatoo]

One word. Classism.

If you don't believe me drive down Ward parkway then across Meyer to Swope, and then down Paseo.

The poor neighborhoods don't get a tenth of the attention of the rich ones. Just look the Paseo bridge across Brush Creek. What a FUCKING joke.

[moderne]

Ward Pkwy residents have "adopted" sections of the street to maintain.
The Paseo bridge over Brush Creek was constructed by a minority contractor.

[voltopt]

Over the past 50 years most of the middle class tax base has left the city, taking with them tax dollars used to upkeep parks and boulevards.  The density of the historic city which holds most of the original parks and boulevards is also about 1/3 of what it was forty years ago, which begs the question - is most of the parks and boulevard system of kansas city missouri unnecessary at this point in time, a pale phantom of a splendor long faded?  Even beyond the loss of the middle class and the major decline in denisty, arn't the bad decisions of the parks board of the past forty years also to blame?  What organization has allowed Penn Valley Park to fall into disrepair and irrelevance?  Who decided to cede Mulkey Square Park and the West Terrace overlook to the Interstate Highway system?  What organization allowed Belevidere Park to be developed and THEN turned into the approach for the Paseo Bridge? What about the loss of Holmes Park at 18th and Holmes?

[GRID]

One word. Classism.

If you don't believe me drive down Ward parkway then across Meyer to Swope, and then down Paseo.

The poor neighborhoods don't get a tenth of the attention of the rich ones. Just look the Paseo bridge across Brush Creek. What a FUCKING joke.

Don't give me that crap, there has been as much money spent on the east side for "aesthetic" improvements as west of troost.  Look at Bruce Watkins, Blue Parkway, the new bridges at 23rd etc.

I guess the city should have put up simple boring girder bridges over brush creek south of the plaza in the economic and tourism hub of the city and put up a 20 million dollar paseo over brush creek bridge?  How would that fix anything?

Outside of hospital hill, there has been almost zero private investment on the east side and many areas over there continue to "blame white people" instead of doing something about it.

I grew up on Swope Parkway and watched it turn ghetto.  We were one of the only white houses on the block, I went to an all black school.  I was the only white kid in the entire school.  Guess what?  No problems what so ever.

All those black families are gone now, they, just like the white families, moved away, to Raytown, Grandview, Lee's Summit or far east KCMO and those homes are now full of black people that have big time chips on their shoulders about race.  Everything is the white people's fault, we kept them down etc.

I agree with them to a point (back in 1950). But I by no means had a good childhood life and absolutely nothing was handed to me, nor did I blame anybody.  I just got out and did what I needed to do.  Before moving to swope parkway, I was practically homeless, living in those warehouses that many of you now own condos in.  My single mother and I.  My childhood memories consist more of frequent surgeries at Children's Mercy, riding the scary as hell freight elevators in those buildings and pulling the stop cord on ata buses.  Moving to Swope Parkway with my grandparents was like living in heaven.

I'm way off topic here, but I just get so fed up with these excuses as to why the eastside is the way it is.

Here is a thought for many in the young black community.  Pull your pants up, tear the tags off your hat, lose the F bombs and and the chip on the shoulder and get over it.  White people didn't bring "you" down and white people are not going to bring "you" up , you have to and the same goes for east side neighborhoods.  You can bitch and complain or you can do something about it.

The city is doing all it can to fix up the east side with little to no return.  But as soon as the white people do start to return to those areas, it will then be "it's all being done for the white people". You can't win.

BTW, I have learned over the years that midwestern inner city blacks are some of the most ignorant and racist people in the country.  Please remember that I'm not speaking of "all" inner city blacks.

I have a black cousin and she now lives in Boston. She would never live in KC because KC is so racially divided and the black there are so ignorant (her words).  My wife teaches in KCMO's east side and I could give examples all day long that would blow your mind.  The brainwashing going on in our young black community is simply ridiculous.  They blame whites for everything.

It's not as bad in the big coastal towns.  This is one area where KC is still stuck in 1930 and I think our ridiculous urban youth crime rate (much higher than most big cities) is a direct result of that.

[ShowMeKC]

The thing is, our strategy has to be to make these neighborhoods of varying races. white, black, hispanic, asian, etc...

Whites may not have kept them down, but because whites left the inner city, the inner city died, and that is why it is the way it is today. If they hadn't been so bent on suburbanism and chasing the American Dream that didn't exist, then the inner city's wouldn't be in their current situation.

However now, we need to focus on killing the racism in our city, on both sides of the fence. One way to do this is to stop the sprawl, if people leave, that isn't a big deal. If we stop the sprawl and focus more on filling in a specified area and denser development, people won't have any choice but to live near people of other races.

There are many ways we can kill the racism, but it needs to be defeated, or minimized in the coming decades. It's been too long since the Civil Rights movement, and it's vision is being forgotten by both sides.

[GRID]

Devin, what do you think Swope Parkway was?  It was the same damn thing Line Creek Parkway is today.  Families "chasing the american dream".  Those were suburbs at one time.

[GRID]

OK, we are way way off topic and since I have played a role in that, lets get back on the topic of Pen Valley Park.

I'm sure I have posted my ideas many times, but I will again.


The park is too big.  The edges of it should be developed more.

The park needs more high density residential on its edges.

The trails in the park need to be expanded and more visible so a typical driver can see activity in the park.  There is nothing better than driving by Forest Park and seeing all those trails full of bikers, walkers and roller bladers.  It makes you want to park the car and get on the trail too.

A pedestrian bridge needs to be built across Broadway connecting the two halfs together.  This could easily be one hell of a high profile, iconic structure that would have amazing views of the city and the park and be an attraction in itself.

Liberty Memorial needs to figure out a way to connect to Union Station and Crown Center.  even a small museum circulator bus that hits the station, lib mem, nelson, arabia, kemper art, etc.

Some sort of attraction needs to be built in the park to go along with the lib mem.  An amphitheater, botanical gardens or aquarium are just quick ideas that come to mind.

The park needs more visible secruity like KCMO PD's horseback or ATV squads.

[shinatoo]

Ward Pkwy residents have "adopted" sections of the street to maintain.
The Paseo bridge over Brush Creek was constructed by a minority contractor.

And? What;s your point.

[shinatoo]

Don't give me that crap, there has been as much money spent on the east side for "aesthetic" improvements as west of troost.  Look at Bruce Watkins, Blue Parkway, the new bridges at 23rd etc.

I guess the city should have put up simple boring girder bridges over brush creek south of the plaza in the economic and tourism hub of the city and put up a 20 million dollar paseo over brush creek bridge?  How would that fix anything?

Outside of hospital hill, there has been almost zero private investment on the east side and many areas over there continue to "blame white people" instead of doing something about it.

I grew up on Swope Parkway and watched it turn ghetto.  We were one of the only white houses on the block, I went to an all black school.  I was the only white kid in the entire school.  Guess what?  No problems what so ever.

All those black families are gone now, they, just like the white families, moved away, to Raytown, Grandview, Lee's Summit or far east KCMO and those homes are now full of black people that have big time chips on their shoulders about race.  Everything is the white people's fault, we kept them down etc.

I agree with them to a point (back in 1950). But I by no means had a good childhood life and absolutely nothing was handed to me, nor did I blame anybody.  I just got out and did what I needed to do.  Before moving to swope parkway, I was practically homeless, living in those warehouses that many of you now own condos in.  My single mother and I.  My childhood memories consist more of frequent surgeries at Children's Mercy, riding the scary as hell freight elevators in those buildings and pulling the stop cord on ata buses.  Moving to Swope Parkway with my grandparents was like living in heaven.

I'm way off topic here, but I just get so fed up with these excuses as to why the eastside is the way it is.

Here is a thought for many in the young black community.  Pull your pants up, tear the tags off your hat, lose the F bombs and and the chip on the shoulder and get over it.  White people didn't bring "you" down and white people are not going to bring "you" up , you have to and the same goes for east side neighborhoods.  You can bitch and complain or you can do something about it.

The city is doing all it can to fix up the east side with little to no return.  But as soon as the white people do start to return to those areas, it will then be "it's all being done for the white people". You can't win.

BTW, I have learned over the years that midwestern inner city blacks are some of the most ignorant and racist people in the country.  Please remember that I'm not speaking of "all" inner city blacks.

I have a black cousin and she now lives in Boston. She would never live in KC because KC is so racially divided and the black there are so ignorant (her words).  My wife teaches in KCMO's east side and I could give examples all day long that would blow your mind.  The brainwashing going on in our young black community is simply ridiculous.  They blame whites for everything.

It's not as bad in the big coastal towns.  This is one area where KC is still stuck in 1930 and I think our ridiculous urban youth crime rate (much higher than most big cities) is a direct result of that.

Those are not part of the Park system. My argument is strictly about the disparity in funds given to Ward Parkway and West Meyer as opposed to Paseo, Swope and East Meyer. You cannot drive any of those streets and dispute what I am saying.

And I am far from one looking for this type of argument, I typically try to find the BS in this type of stuff but I cannot here.

I thought you went to Ray-South?