Unofficial Kill Bistate II Thread

[KCPowercat]

I'd say a Wiz stadium with a combo of community soccer fields that could host big soccer events, some art projects (not up to Nelson level obviously) and maybe help out with the Commuter rail plan.

[staubio]

I'll repeat my question, then: What is the point? If we have to take the proceeds of bi-state and sprinkle them proportionately back to all of the areas that pay into the tax, we are back where we started. We might as well not waste time.

Typically, I would cheer loudly for any bi-state tax. Passage signals hope for metro unity and a shared vision. I think I'd vote against this one, however, because I cannot support throwing more money at the K in its horrible location.

Personally, I see Bi-State as an acknowledgement by the suburbs of what Kansas City proper does for them. Living in the metro affords the cultural, historical and sports options that the city provides. Without urban Kansas City, JoCo doesn't have a lot to attract professionals to the metro. Them wanting to build little versions of everything only dilutes the quality of attractions metro-wide. We've built a great city dispite the diluting of the tax base and everyone can enjoy the benefits even though not everyone pays the price.

[KCPowercat]

I don't think anybody thinks it should go back in the same porportions as paid in, or that would make no sense.

but having JoCo residents just pay for items on the MO side would get old for them, I can see that.

[dangerboy]

The arts and culture portion of bistate would include money for programs throughout the metro. For example, The Johnson County Museum, the Carlson Center, public art projects, and the various community theater groups and orchestras. There isn't a big master list of this stuff because the idea is to let the individual communities decide how spend their share of the money.

Even if they don't get a new building, they would still be getting money back from bistate. But they seem to be blinded by the idea of getting a pile of bricks.

[GRID]

I'll repeat my question, then: What is the point? If we have to take the proceeds of bi-state and sprinkle them proportionately back to all of the areas that pay into the tax, we are back where we started. We might as well not waste time.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to reverse the situation Jayhawk, you have to reverse the ENTIRE situation and there is a lot to reverse. Then you would have different feelings like everyone on the Missouri side do. I’m not going to get into that, but I would like even the last five years of my tax money that went to regional assets or at least the difference if we had more regional funding in place.

I'll say it again, MISSOURI NEEDS TO DO THIS ON THEIR OWN, I don’t want to here anymore Kansans call in to talk shows and say that Downtown sucks and the speedway is the place to be. I will pay more in taxes just to not hear that anymore.

Having said that, I would support an attraction on the Kansas side, I supported the soccer stadium, but, like the race track, JoCo doesn’t really want it, they just need an excuse to not support the bistate.

In the form it is right now, I would have a hard time voting yes for Bistate II though. No reason to spend 200 million on Kauffman when you would get so much more in return by spending another 100 million and bringing the Royals Downtown. The Chiefs don’t need 200 million, period. Let them sit while we deal with the Royals and Downtown for now. They make twice as much money a year as the Royals loose.

[GuyInLenexa]

The Bi-State Tax still confuses me.
I would rather the money be used to upgrade current institutions first, I am certain that no JOCOian expects to see another Atkins spring up on 135th Street next to a new Hen House.
The only problem I have is giving these large sums of money to the sports facilities, as they exist today.
Personally, if they moved the baseball stadium downtown, JOCOians would probably applaud it more that renovating Kaufmann. Most JOCOians support the arts in KCMO. Many of the businesses and corporations in JOCO do also.
As I mentioned before, the projects seem quite nebulous (SP?) or undefined.
I hope by the time this thing goes to a vote, the powers that be will show us specifically what is needed.
Why is the arena not on the Bi-State plan?
I still feel that there should be a BiState Authority that can levy a tax for specific projects. The authority can buy the present stadiums for Jackson Co. I also feel a similar thing should be done for the Port/Airport Authority. Jackson Co. and KCMO can't support all these great projects on their own. The entire metro will benefit.

gil

[GRID]

I couldn't agree more, GIL.

[phxcat]

That would be the sensible thing. Have an elected commission, representative of the six major counties (including Leavenworth- they coyuld stand to profit with their history) levy a tax, and when a project comes up, decide hoew much bi-state money to spend on it. One thing Johnson County could put it into would be the Japanese cultural tyhing that had been proposed. It could go into a soccer stadium. It could go into Quindaro in WY. At that point, the money would be out there, and it would be up to the individual counties to come up with a project to use it on.

[KCK]

This is certainly not going to even be on the ballet in Wyandotte County. The last Bi-State wasn't, and the one before that was defeated here. I'm frustrated that to KCMO we don't even get enough repsect to be considered a major part of the metro area, and asked to be included on votes like this.

KCMO politicians see the bucket loads of money JOCO has and they think WYCO is broke and they don't even offer to include us. Maybe they are right, since we turned down the original bi state. But it doesn't cost anything to put it on our ballets and let us decide on our own.

[dangerboy]

This is certainly not going to even be on the ballet in Wyandotte County. The last Bi-State wasn't, and the one before that was defeated here. I'm frustrated that to KCMO we don't even get enough repsect to be considered a major part of the metro area, and asked to be included on votes like this. .

There has only been one ballot ever, for Union Station. It WAS on the ballot in Wyco, but y'all voted against it. All bistate discussions since then HAVE included Wyco along with the other four counties. Maybe you are confused by the requirement that it only goes into effect if both Jackson and Johnson pass it, but the other three counties still have the option to participate.

[trailerkid]

hmmm... I am sure Village West already has provisions keeping their retailers from paying any more tax for their entire existance, so let's figure out how much Wy Co would owe...

One-eighth tax of $0.01 X the revenue of the KCK Dollar General, Big Lots, and Salvation Army.

Wy Co will help contribute $21.62 to Bistate II.

But seriously, Wy Co should stay out of Bistate. Bistate sales tax collection is for our suburban fat cats. Hell, Bistate III should be for KCK.

We need new blood and new ideas regardless of municipality or state line not the same old sh$#...kill Bistate II.

[KCK]

hmmm... I am sure Village West already has provisions keeping their retailers from paying any more tax for their entire existance, so let's figure out how much Wy Co would owe...

One-eighth tax of $0.01 X the revenue of the KCK Dollar General, Big Lots, and Salvation Army.

Wy Co will help contribute $21.62 to Bistate II.

But seriously, Wy Co should stay out of Bistate. Bistate sales tax collection is for our suburban fat cats. Hell, Bistate III should be for KCK.

We need new blood and new ideas regardless of municipality or state line not the same old sh$#...kill Bistate II.

Im worried that the issue won't even appear on our ballets. Like we aren't even part of the metro, or no one even cares what we think or want to contribute. I'm not saying Bi-State is a good idea.

By the way, Wyandotte County is not totally devoid of retail as you suggest. I admit the choices are far less than even Leavenworth by comparison, but it still has plenty to get by on.

[rxlexi]

Ok here's the thing everyone seems to forget about JOCO: those that live there CHOOSE to live there, and for many good reasons, as well as those that live in KCMO. -JOCO residents can escape the horrible schools in the city, they can escape the crime, they can escape the lack of funding, the poor infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. Those that live in KCMO (by choice) put up with these things because they enjoy being in the city, in the cultural heart of the region. Pro-sports, the Nelson, the Plaza and many more are the benefits to those that live in the city. Of course those that live in JOCO can take advantage of these as well, and have their nice quality schools and clean streets and 'safe' neighborhoods to head back to. That's fine. Yes, you're further away and these institutions aren't in your backyard....move closer. Enjoy having the benefit of their use, and if called to support them, do it if you use them. I'm not necesarily encouraging BiState II, especially with the Royals stadium issue, but I feel that those across the stateline can just as easily help support the city as the rest of the metro, unless they want to stop using the facilities. Part of moving to a fringe suburb BY CHOICE is that you GIVE UP some of the amenities of the city. When did this stop being a reality? In return, you get to escape the negatives that those in the suburbs (MO and KS) are sooo aware of in the city. To those that say JOCO got nothing out of the Union Station plan, I say drive your behind down there and enjoy the building, eat in it's restaraunts, etc. I do. It's not right next door to me. I would hate to think that I stand alone in enjoying that magnificent building and peice of KC history if for no other reason than to enjoy a cup of coffee and wander (though I'm as disappointed as everyone else with it's current management). Truly, a suburb is just that, and improvements to the city can be nothing but positive for the entire metro. I guess all I'm saying in this rant is that city dwellers pay their price too....it's shitty schools and much higher crime and potholes and lack plowing and slow police yada yada yada....JOCOians can enjoy all this too if they'd like, as well as having all of the joy and entertainment present in the real center of the metro, but it seems they;d rather not.

On the other hand, I understand that JOCO would want to use some portion of it's BSII money for it's own purposes. Well, let's enhance the metro with them. The city gets all the big institutions because it's the city, it's our heart. There's no room for argument there. Focus on what you do well JOCO...build ton's of suburban retail like St.Louis Mills on the other side of MO, our create some form of transit to ease the disgustingly clogged commuter highways like I35, or build up north JOCO into something special that could really complement the city.
I should add that I think KCK has quite a bit of potential. I'd love to see some BSII money, mine included if I were to vote, pumped into the heart of KCK (not that silly NFM/track business)...their rivierfront especially. Now there's an area where cross state cooperation could really be a beautiful thing.

[TheDude]

There will NEVER, EVER be regional cooperation in this metropolitan area (aka Bistate 2); just deal with that fact. IT WILL ALWAYS BE WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME!! The sooner you accept that the better. It will always be Wyco V. Joco V. KCMO V. Northland V. ?? And when you add in the attitudes of the families that run this town (Whats in it for me?) the problem is exacerbated. Bistate 1 was a fluke, if Bistate 2 passes, it will be so watered down with taking care of special interests that it will not have the significant impact we need to move our city forward. Take solice in the fact that you can fly cheaply to other great locations throughout the country that have their shit together and have put their selfish iterests aside for the greater long term good. Nazareth said it best:

You want me to be your friend
Stick by you through thick or thin

What’s in it for me
What’s in it for me?

You’d like me to deal you in
Hold your hand right to the end

What’s in it for me
What’s in it for me?

You want me to be your friend
You want me and you want him
This ain’t for me
This ain’t for me

You want someone you can trust
You want love , you don’t want much

What’s in it for me
What’s in it for me

You want my name on the line
I don’t feel that way inclined

What’s in it for me
What’s in it for me?

You want me to be your friend
You want me and you want him
This ain’t for me
This ain’t for me.

[KCPowercat]

TheDude is the perfect example of really trying to get something done, not settling for the status quo.

I believe he's also the one who reported H&R Block going to Johnson County.

[trailerkid]

He has a point...I believe it is called exchange theory.

Unfortuneately, I too believe that there will never be widespread metro cooperation in our lifetimes. Many of us on the board are very positive about metro cooperation, and we still bicker at each other. There may be further Bistate projects, but they are never without controversy and some hard feelings.

[KCPowercat]

Oh his point is valid and some parts are true but the attitude was more what I was commenting on.

[trailerkid]

Mayors say Bistate II is dead...

[quote]Bistate must change or die, mayors say

By JEFFREY SPIVAK
The Kansas City Star

An ad-hoc group of area mayors lashed out at the proposed multicounty bistate tax Thursday night, calling it “deadâ€

[QueSi2Opie]

Let's highlight a couple of things for the anti-JOCO peeps.

- The Johnson County contingent did tell bistate leaders that the package did not need a new project in Johnson County, something that other civic leaders in that county had been demanding.

- Eilert added: “All the mayors are interested in the bistate working, and everyone wants to support that. But there was also widespread feeling that the current proposal needs to be restructured.â€

[KCPowercat]

trailer...w/o changes it's dead...not all together.

Que....I read that....I have no problem with johnson county getting "something" for this if they desire.....what needs to happen is the organizers of Bi-State need to freaking ASK everybody what they'd like to see in the proposal instead of just treating the KS side as an afterthought.