Sprint Center's necessity?

[Highlander]

The Sprint Center is a huge accomplishment imo.  Before, there was 0 chance of getting an NHL or NBA team, not to mention that our arena was crap and in a terrible location.  Now we will have a great arena in a great location, and that 0 change of getting an NHL or NBA team is gone.  At some point or another we will get a team, even if it isnt for a while.

My sentiments exactly.  Not only was there 0 chance of attracting the NHL or NBA, we were in danger of never seeing the Big XII basketball tournemant again and the bigger name concert acts had been passing KC by yet booking shows in cities like Omaha and Des Moines.  Kemper may have had some life in it still (although many of its facilities were inadequate) but it was in such an absolutely horrible location that it was essentially worthless.

I find it strange that Kansas Citians could quite easily grasp the inadequacies of Kemper's location, only a mile or so from downtown, while totally ignoring an even more glaring location problem with the Truman Sports complex.

[KCMax]

Kemper's location weren't really the biggest strike against it thought. It was more that it was an outdated, shabby facility that didn't age particularly well.

[kcdcchef]

Kemper's location weren't really the biggest strike against it thought. It was more that it was an outdated, shabby facility that didn't age particularly well.

sports arenas and domes do not age well, or retain any type of nostalgic value whatsoever. not sure why, i personally loved the garden in boston and was saddened at it's demise, however, for whatever reason noone misses arenas when they come down, and kemper for some odd reason will live on for probably another 30-40 years.

the fact was, as max said, kemper had many more strikes against it then the truman sports complex did, and i really believe a lot of the same voters that voted yes for sprint center voted yes for the tsc because they felt with building a new arena they basically had addressed the need for a major sports venue in the city to anchor redevelopment.

[moderne]

  An exception to the above would be Municipal Auditorium.  Oozes nostalgic value, aged beautifully, still functions well for smaller events, and is even still being improved.

[Gretz]

I don't think that anyone would argue that the Sprint center will not be a good thing for downtown.  It will bring more people to the area and be a key ingredient along with the P&L district and residential developments to bringing more people downtown.  I don't think it will be a failure even without a pro-team of some sort.  All other things being equal, the Sprint center is DEFINATELY a good thing for downtown.  However when we ask whether or not it was NECCESSARY we are asking something totally different.  We have to think about the opportunity costs of the arena.  The several hundred million dollars of revenue that are being used for the stadium could have been voted in on a number of other projects that are more neccessary, such as fixing our ailing sewer system or a (hopefully more sane than the most recent) light rail proposal, or projects that might have helped downtown to achieve a critical mass as an entertainment district.  I would say that it was NECCESSARY to have something to draw people to downtown for entertainment purposes for the the P&L district to succeed and probably it wouldn't even have been built without it.  However it seems to me that a new baseball stadium with an assured ML tenant or some other attraction or group of attractions might have also filled this role.  Building the Center without a tenant was a risk, one that may well pay off over the next few years, but a risk nonetheless.  The recent article from the Pitch makes me wonder whether or not our civic leaders made a good calculation of the risks involved when pushing the Sprint Center.  In the end I would say that in the case that we don't get a pro-tenant in the next few years, despite the benefits the Center will undoubtedly bring to downtown and the metro in general, it may not have been a good allocation of resources.  If it does manage to bring a pro-team and the consistent flow of many thousands of fans to downtown regularly for many months of the year, it will undoubtedly have been a good investement.  The jury is out for now. 

[kcdcchef]

   An exception to the above would be Municipal Auditorium.  Oozes nostalgic value, aged beautifully, still functions well for smaller events, and is even still being improved.

i agree there. muni is a lucky structure, most areanas/auditoriums built in that era got torn down to build places like kemper, etc, like in st louis, they destroyed an iconic arena for a newer one, so muni just got lucky.

now it is dated, and will not generally speaking draw top rate events anymore, but it will get it's fare share of second tier events, and i really love the fact that it is now part of events at bartle. i really wish it had been opened up to bartle more when they remodeled, that tiny little entrance is pathetic, but, still, to see the old lady getting used still is nice.

[Maitre D]

Their was no promise of a NBA or NHL team when Sprint was built.

"If you build a world-class facility and create the economic streams for the franchise to thrive, you're going to get an NBA and an NHL team here"  Tim Lieweke, July 2004

http://www.laobserved.com/sports/2006/0 ... ederer.php

The KC media will try to play that angle because they are scummy and they apparently believe conflict/controversy helps ratings so they gin up crap like this.

Or...maybe.....Tim Lieweke played "that angle" b/c HE is scummy.  And apparently believed that this conflict/controversy would help polling so he ginned up crap like getting a pro team in there.

[kard]

i agree there. muni is a lucky structure, most areanas/auditoriums built in that era got torn down to build places like kemper, etc, like in st louis, they destroyed an iconic arena for a newer one, so muni just got lucky.

now it is dated, and will not generally speaking draw top rate events anymore, but it will get it's fare share of second tier events, and i really love the fact that it is now part of events at bartle. i really wish it had been opened up to bartle more when they remodeled, that tiny little entrance is pathetic, but, still, to see the old lady getting used still is nice.

Did anyone ever go in to the St Louis Arena (the Barn)?  I never did, but photos I saw made it look very worn and like its time had come.  I understand it was iconic and the sentimental feelings, but it actually looked like a 100 year-old barn.  If you'd been in it, let me know how far off base I am.

Municipal does not look like that.  It looks great on the outside.  A major renovation on the inside would be good, but it looks awesome outside.

It's also in the right location. 


St Louis Arena:

[kcdcchef]

Did anyone ever go in to the St Louis Arena (the Barn)?  I never did, but photos I saw made it look very worn and like its time had come.  I understand it was iconic and the sentimental feelings, but it actually looked like a 100 year-old barn.  If you'd been in it, let me know how far off base I am.

Municipal does not look like that.  It looks great on the outside.  A major renovation on the inside would be good, but it looks awesome outside.

It's also in the right location. 

been there. i do not think muni looks any better from the outside then the one did in stl. i thought the entrance of the arena in stl was more iconic looking. take away the two grand towers at the front of the arena, then yes, it looks like shit.

but the inside, yeah, it was cramped, dark, sweaty, and smelly. muni before the renovations was the same. but, again we renovated and redid muni because of it's proximity to bartle and the convention district. if muni was across town, it would have got knocked down when we built kemper. i am happy it did not, it is a nice little addition when we host ncaa events, and a good home for the roos.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Not only was there 0 chance of attracting the NHL or NBA,

and the bigger name concert acts had been passing KC by yet booking shows in cities like Omaha and Des Moines.

Kemper may have had some life in it still (although many of its facilities were inadequate) but it was in such an absolutely horrible location that it was essentially worthless.

Depending on the team and its owner we just might have less of a chance for a NBA or NHL team.  Why?  Many teams like to control the arena, with AEG in Sprint that precludes team control.  Besides, Kemper would have worked well for a team for a couple of years before a new arena was built.  The city probably would have given the team very favorable rent terms for the short term to have a team in the long term.  Yes, AEG could be bought out but that would be very expensive.  Teams like control of the arena because they would be in charge and receive the benefit of not sharing revenues with another party.  One example might be the team cutting a deal with Belfonte Ice Cream for team sponsorship with exclusive in-house advertising and a suite deal.  If AEG has sponsorship with Blue Bunny that precludes any permanent advertising for Belfonte in the arena.

Concerts have bypassed KC for many reasons.  One could be that KC is not the concert town it once was.  Going over the last 5 to 10 years KC has failed to sellout or have large crowds at concerts that in other markets sold very strong.  And don't blame that on Kemper, people will go there if they REALLY want to see the performance.  About the only exceptions have been C&W concerts.  Another is that for many years Kemper was "it" with regards to having a large arena within a 4 to 5 hour drive.  Now there are many choices for acts and many like to go to markets they have not been to before.

[knucklehead]

Pittsburgwhatever, are you incapable of distinguishing between a promise and a prediction? Geez. Here is a hint, promises usually start with something like "I promise" or "I guarantee". Also, Tim Liewike doesn't even work for the city so its kind of hard to understand how he can make promises for the city. Everyone understands that Liewike is a promoter, not a city official. 

The public was told repeatedly that the need for the arena did not depend on getting an NBA or NHL team. The public was also told that there was no promise that an NBA or NHL team but the prospects were reasonable. I doubt if you actually disagree with those statements and assume you are just a flamebaiter with low ethical standards. 

[Maitre D]

Pittsburgwhatever, are you incapable of distinguishing between a promise and a prediction? Geez. Here is a hint, promises usually start with something like "I promise" or "I guarantee". Also, Tim Liewike doesn't even work for the city so its kind of hard to understand how he can make promises for the city. Everyone understands that Liewike is a promoter, not a city official. 

Uh huh.  It was a prediction, not a promise.  What next, the famous, "That depends on what the definition of is, is"?

The public was told repeatedly that the need for the arena did not depend on getting an NBA or NHL team.

Sprint-Nextel is only on the hook for 40M...not 62M....if it doesn't happen.  Don't you wish the public had such a deal too?  I guess only corporations get special treatment!

e public was also told that there was no promise that an NBA or NHL team but the prospects were reasonable. I doubt if you actually disagree with those statements and assume you are just a flamebaiter with low ethical standards. 

disagree with Knucklehead=flaming.  Sooooo tired.  (Sigh)

[kard]

Uh huh.  It was a prediction, not a promise.  What next, the famous, "That depends on what the definition of is, is"?

It wasn't a guarantee.  You're making quite a stretch here.

[kcdcchef]

Uh huh.  It was a prediction, not a promise.  What next, the famous, "That depends on what the definition of is, is"?


Sprint-Nextel is only on the hook for 40M...not 62M....if it doesn't happen.  Don't you wish the public had such a deal too?  I guess only corporations get special treatment!

disagree with Knucklehead=flaming.  Sooooo tired.  (Sigh)

i too gauraneed the city would get nba/nhl, guess the city of kansas city is on the hook for that since i said it, being is that i am in the same boat as liewike, not working for the city yet hoping for it, guess i too "promised"

ppa, a little remedial education for ya, a promise begins with the words i promise, or finishes with them. anyone can blow smoke out their asses talking about getting the team. none of them own teams, so how can you take it as a promise? if the ownership of the nba new orleans franchise said they promised kc would get a team, then you would have someone's balls to hold over the fire. you dont, that is what irks you.

Pittsburgwhatever, are you incapable of distinguishing between a promise and a prediction? Geez. Here is a hint, promises usually start with something like "I promise" or "I guarantee". Also, Tim Liewike doesn't even work for the city so its kind of hard to understand how he can make promises for the city. Everyone understands that Liewike is a promoter, not a city official. 

The public was told repeatedly that the need for the arena did not depend on getting an NBA or NHL team. The public was also told that there was no promise that an NBA or NHL team but the prospects were reasonable. I doubt if you actually disagree with those statements and assume you are just a flamebaiter with low ethical standards. 

good post, thank you for telling it like it is. ppa will be the first to wear a hat for a franchise if we get one, rooting for them, acting like a loyal fan all along.

[aknowledgeableperson]

"If you build a world-class facility and create the economic streams for the franchise to thrive, you're going to get an NBA and an NHL team here"  Tim Lieweke, July 2004

http://www.laobserved.com/sports/2006/0 ... ederer.php

I guess that KC will not have a world-class facility after all.  Or the Sprint Center will not create the economic streams for a NBA or NHL team since AEG will siphon off the revenues the team would need.

Promise or not a promise can be disputed forever but the above appears to be a factual type statement - you do this and then you will get that. 

[kard]

I guess that KC will not have a world-class facility after all.  Or the Sprint Center will not create the economic streams for a NBA or NHL team since AEG will siphon off the revenues the team would need.

Promise or not a promise can be disputed forever but the above appears to be a factual type statement - you do this and then you will get that. 

Right.  So when Wikipedia says the elephant population of Africa has tripled in recent years, then that's fact, right?

[Highlander]

I guess that KC will not have a world-class facility after all.  Or the Sprint Center will not create the economic streams for a NBA or NHL team since AEG will siphon off the revenues the team would need.

Promise or not a promise can be disputed forever but the above appears to be a factual type statement - you do this and then you will get that. 

Who's to say we won't?  

[Maitre D]

I guess that KC will not have a world-class facility after all.  Or the Sprint Center will not create the economic streams for a NBA or NHL team since AEG will siphon off the revenues the team would need.

I think that the Sprint Center WILL be world class, and WOULD support a good deal of economic streams for a team.  Just not more streams than other metros would, certainly fewer than Sacramento or Portland or Orlando would - as they are the "only game in town" those places.

Promise or not a promise can be disputed forever but the above appears to be a factual type statement - you do this and then you will get that. 

I still want to know:  why did Sprint-Nextel get a "discount" if there's no tenant.....but the city doesn't?  It does strike me as tho they played a game of wink wink, nod nod with the big whigs.

[KCPowercat]

I guess that KC will not have a world-class facility after all.  Or the Sprint Center will not create the economic streams for a NBA or NHL team since AEG will siphon off the revenues the team would need.

Promise or not a promise can be disputed forever but the above appears to be a factual type statement - you do this and then you will get that. 

What did you tell me about opinion and not having to say "this is my opinion" before the statement?

[advocrat]

NBA/NHL or not, it can always be turned it into an aquarium.