Mexican presidential election and NAFTA

[phxcat]

I was reading about the election last night, which is currently  a dead heat between a member of PAN, Felipe Calderon, which is the same conservative party of Vicente Fox, and the leftist PRD candidate, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.  Calderon is unoficially ahead by a little over 1%, but they will do an oficial count on Wednesday.  What will be the effects of this election on the Kansas City Mexican port deal?  I imagine that under Calderon it will be full speed ahead, but I wonder what Obrador would do, if his election would kill the thing?  Of course, by Wednesday, this thing could be moot.

[bahua]

It could only benefit Mexico's economy, right? So why would either candidate's position be to stop that?

[LenexatoKCMO]

It could only benefit Mexico's economy, right? So why would either candidate's position be to stop that?

Obrador is a leftist/populist somewhat in line with Hugo Chavez so it is not a risky bet to imagine that us/mexican relations in general could go down the shitter if he is elected and free trade is not likely to be on the top of his priority list. 

[phxcat]

Exactly.

[phxcat]

Besides the fact that workers typr parties tend to be anti-NAFTA in general.

[bahua]

Have I been fed gross misinformation? I thought NAFTA was great for Mexico's economy. Is this not true? Or, if it is, are there really people that would put their own hubris ahead of an obvious benefit for the people they claim to serve?

[phxcat]

I don't know if that is what Obrador believes, this is just conjecture, but I think that there is a general feeling that NAFTA leads to oppression in Mexico, through sweatshops and such. 

[LenexatoKCMO]

Have I been fed gross misinformation? I thought NAFTA was great for Mexico's economy. Is this not true? Or, if it is, are there really people that would put their own hubris ahead of an obvious benefit for the people they claim to serve?

Whether its good for the economy or not, telling poor people that you are going to screw the americans is popular.

[Gladstoner]

Whether its good for the economy or not, telling poor people that you are going to screw the americans is popular.

"We may be down 100 games.... but we beat the Yankees today!"

[Thrillcekr]

If NAFTA was actually working I doubt we'd be having millions of Mexicans bum rushing the United States in search of work.  The jobs that have been created down there by NAFTA don't even pay well by Mexican standards. 

[Sundodger]

Have I been fed gross misinformation? I thought NAFTA was great for Mexico's economy. Is this not true?

Yes it is true.  The areas in Mexicon that benefit the most from NAFTA also supported the pro-NAFTA candidate.  Mexico is a mess because of corruption, cronyism, and other factors which is why millions of Mexicans come to America.  In fact remittances are one of the biggest imports of money to Mexico.  NAFTA is a step in the right direction, now Mexico needs to reform so job creation can occur without the destructive effects of corruption, cronysim, etc. 

[Sundodger]

If NAFTA was actually working I doubt we'd be having millions of Mexicans bum rushing the United States in search of work.

NAFTA is working, Mexico would be an even bigger mess without it.  The problem in Mexico is corruption and cronyism.  Why would people invest in place where it is likely to get stolen away from you?  That is why Mexico is a mess.  If god forbid that commie Obrador wins, Mexico will be an even bigger mess, and even more people will want to flee here.

The jobs that have been created down there by NAFTA don't even pay well by Mexican standards. 

False.  The areas effected by NAFTA are some of the most prosperous areas in Mexico.

[phxcat]

Saying "That commie Obrador" puts the rest of what you say at doubt.

[Sundodger]

Saying "That commie Obrador" puts the rest of what you say at doubt.

If you understood his politics, you would understand I am right.

[bahua]

Still, though. To call someone a "commie" is incendiary. He may well be a communist. If he is, use the proper word, and not the opinionated word.

[LenexatoKCMO]

If you understood his politics, you would understand I am right.

Really?  I am pretty sure that most Poli Sci professors would say you are full of shit.  Believe it or not there is a world of fundametal difference between "leftest" and "Communist".  "Populist" is a whole other animal to boot. 

Calling Obrador a Communist is kind of like calling Bush a Fascist - Its only true for the most unscientific, pedestrian usage of the word - not its true meaning

[leaf]

obrador isn't that radical.  if he did get elected, he would probably gravitate closer to the center anyway. 

[KCMax]

Calderon, the conservative candidate, appears to have won the vote, but it will likely be challenged.

[Gladstoner]

One amusing tidbit is that Obrador means 'worker' or 'workshop' in Spanish (according to various internet Spanish dictionaries, which seem to be of dubious quality at times). How convenient for the leftist candidate.

Also, Calderon means 'cauldron', which is what the political situation in Mexico may become in the next few days.

[Thrillcekr]

NAFTA is working, Mexico would be an even bigger mess without it.  The problem in Mexico is corruption and cronyism.  Why would people invest in place where it is likely to get stolen away from you?  That is why Mexico is a mess.  If god forbid that commie Obrador wins, Mexico will be an even bigger mess, and even more people will want to flee here.

False.  The areas effected by NAFTA are some of the most prosperous areas in Mexico.

Back it up.  More of them are coming over here than ever before.  What used to be a problem only in the southwest is now nation wide.  That's a fact.  If you haven't noticed that then you've been walking around with your eyes closed.

I know the jobs don't pay shit over there because I come in contact with quite a few people who see the results of NAFTA quite regularly.  Our engineers visit Mexican plants that produce parts for us on a regular basis and they will tell you it's exactly the opposite of what you say.  We have Mexican liasons that pull one year rotations at our facility to repair defects that don't get caught before leaving Favesa and report them back. I've spoken with them quite often and I believe they'd know a lot better than you what's really going on down there.  Not only do they put those businesses down there so they don't have to pay anyone but also because they won't be held accountable for mal treatment of their employees or any injuries caused by their negligence.  They can't replicate the slave like work conditions that were prevalent here 80 years ago so they move their businesses to someplace where they can get away with it. 

What it sounds to me like is that you have a problem with working class people in general.  I come to that conclusion based on your comment that anyone you think might make a stand on behalf of working class people is a "commie".  Yeah, it would be a damn shame if somebody was to protect those people from greedy American business men wouldn't it?  I can't say I know much about Obrador but I'm having my doubts as to whether you do either.  I'm inclined to believe that you're one of those little parrots that repeats everything you hear on Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity's show where they constantly try to bastardize working class people while simultaneously painting the white collar criminals who steal from them as good guys.  Kind of in the same manner they villify poor people receiving social benefits while touting free hand outs to billion dollar corporations at the expense of people who are doing good just to keep their electricity on.  Wake up man.