KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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normalthings
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Pre-corona, we were doing about half the daily ridership of DC Metro Silver Line. Silverline having cost 3,000% more.

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Dave do you happen to have the ridership for Aug?
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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@kcstreetcar Twitter has been posting data broken up by week

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DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:42 pm
Dave do you happen to have the ridership for Aug?
Image

Image

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:30 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:39 pm
With bus route frequency being reduced and all buses free should we be putting the streetcar in the barn till the stay at home order is lifted?
You really don’t want to shut down a rail system. Cincinnati tried to shut theirs down and it cost them more so they’re running minimal service with the doors closed (for real).
https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportatio ... d-covid-19
The skeleton crew would consist of 12 employees continuing to maintain the five streetcar vehicles and other components of the system so they do not fall into disrepair, the documents attached to Reynolds' email indicated.

Transdev officials estimate such a crew would cost approximately $138,000 a month.

In contrast, the documents state, a hard shutdown would come with a monthly cost of just $25,000 but with a restart cost of anywhere from $300,000 to $1 million. The $25,000 per month during the full shutdown would go toward security staff for the streetcar facilities.

Under Transdev's best-case projections, the streetcar could run reduced service closed to passengers for more than two months before doing so would outweigh the costs of completely stopping and restarting the system. Under their highest cost estimates, the streetcar could do so for more than seven months.
Incredibly, it might have been cheaper to fully shut down at this point

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normalthings
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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flyingember wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:57 am
DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:30 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:39 pm
With bus route frequency being reduced and all buses free should we be putting the streetcar in the barn till the stay at home order is lifted?
You really don’t want to shut down a rail system. Cincinnati tried to shut theirs down and it cost them more so they’re running minimal service with the doors closed (for real).
https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportatio ... d-covid-19
The skeleton crew would consist of 12 employees continuing to maintain the five streetcar vehicles and other components of the system so they do not fall into disrepair, the documents attached to Reynolds' email indicated.

Transdev officials estimate such a crew would cost approximately $138,000 a month.

In contrast, the documents state, a hard shutdown would come with a monthly cost of just $25,000 but with a restart cost of anywhere from $300,000 to $1 million. The $25,000 per month during the full shutdown would go toward security staff for the streetcar facilities.

Under Transdev's best-case projections, the streetcar could run reduced service closed to passengers for more than two months before doing so would outweigh the costs of completely stopping and restarting the system. Under their highest cost estimates, the streetcar could do so for more than seven months.
Incredibly, it might have been cheaper to fully shut down at this point
Sounds like the line just reopened with the council moving to make it free forever.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 691667002/

Cincinnati averages something like 1400 riders per day. Sounds to me like 5 vehicles more than meet their demands. Would be great to look into buying 1 or 2 of their units.

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normalthings
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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@davekcmo

How long are the starter line bonds/TDD for? I seem to remember 25 years.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

Correct. The new TDD will continue paying off the starter line's debt, but on the original schedule (downtown TDD special assessments will also retire on their original timeline). At some point, the downtown TDD's rates will be set to zero.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:42 pm
Correct. The new TDD will continue paying off the starter line's debt, but on the original schedule (downtown TDD special assessments will also retire on their original timeline). At some point, the downtown TDD's rates will be set to zero.
Then the streetcar website is wrong

https://kcstreetcar.org/transportation- ... -district/
The TDD’s revenue sources will not be collected until the extension is fully funded, either through Federal grants or other non-TDD sources and will replace and expand the existing downtown TDD used to support the starter-line’s construction and operations
If legally the new TDD replaces the old one, then the revenues can’t be separately set to zero without never collecting revenue for the expansion.
The second the new TDD overtakes the old one it’s one giant revenue zone that’s paying for all bonds

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DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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That's not a legal description of what's happening.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Is there a estimate of when the new TDD will begin paying?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

KCPowercat wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Is there a estimate of when the new TDD will begin paying?
When the new TDD board votes to activate the assessments and sales tax, probably as soon as there's a Full Funding Grant Agreement (estimated by end of year -- previously 1Q21). There will probably be some lag as the new TDD to turn on rates, the old TDD turn off rates, and the city's finance department (and council) to handle administrative tasks and votes. That's quite a few levers and all with different masters -- new elected TDD board, appointed old TDD board, interim city manager, mayor/council + TIO/finance committees -- but rest assured the city's finance department is prepared for a seamless transition.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Thanks

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

How’d the ridership numbers look through Q4 2020? Any major increase or about stagnant to what it was in august?
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Looks like for the most part KC avoids this problem relying on fares.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ ... n_20201227

"The Covid-19 pandemic has hit some public transit systems hard.

Passenger numbers on New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority and London's Underground metro systems initially crashed by around 95 percent, and they have recovered to only about one-third of last year's levels. And while the numbers have rebounded, passenger numbers are likely to be lower in the near to medium term.

But that's not what worries experts. With cities around the world facing financial problems because of the pandemic, governments may look to cut funding, because ridership is down. That can create what some have dubbed a "death spiral" — a cycle of poorer services and even fewer riders.

"I have absolutely no doubt in saying that demand will be lower than it was pre-Covid," said Greg Marsden, a professor of transport governance at the University of Leeds in Britain. "It will be lower because we're entering a massive recession and because people have adapted their behaviors.

"What really matters is how we manage the transition," he added. "If we get this wrong, then it's very hard to bring public transport services back once they've disappeared.""

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:19 am
How’d the ridership numbers look through Q4 2020? Any major increase or about stagnant to what it was in august?
Ridership numbers are on the website, there's a chart for the year

https://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:19 pm
Looks like for the most part KC avoids this problem relying on fares.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ ... n_20201227
I would be surprised if there isn't an impact but certainly less than fare reliant systems

The property taxes didn't go down and that certainly helps, it's the sales tax decline. Even 10,000 workers spending $10 on lunch each day is $250k in lost revenue per year and there's more than 110,000 workers downtown normally.

The board meeting minutes from September allude to revenue declining
https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... g-Mins.pdf

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