KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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flyingember
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

The old road was Front St.. Same as the new road

I don't see how that line could be in front of several dozen other options. It's roughly $75 million that would be better put to crossing the river. Access to thousands of blue collar jobs in NKC and help eliminate some need for a super expensive i-35 widening for the tens of thousands of cars second creek will produce should beat out connecting to a casino.

The city will be spending a huge sum on roads or transit in the northland a few decades out. It's time to start planning. Modot doesn't have the money anymore so it's going to be up to the city to fund.

The only way I see the riverfront getting covered is if the line stops at the west end and then crosses on a new bridge.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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Last edited by pash on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pork Chop
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Pork Chop »

flyingember wrote:The old road was Front St.. Same as the new road

I don't see how that line could be in front of several dozen other options. It's roughly $75 million that would be better put to crossing the river. Access to thousands of blue collar jobs in NKC and help eliminate some need for a super expensive i-35 widening for the tens of thousands of cars second creek will produce should beat out connecting to a casino.

The city will be spending a huge sum on roads or transit in the northland a few decades out. It's time to start planning. Modot doesn't have the money anymore so it's going to be up to the city to fund.

The only way I see the riverfront getting covered is if the line stops at the west end and then crosses on a new bridge.
I am actually speaking about River Front Road and I am not saying to do it before a Main Street extension, but a route to add near the top of the list. Also, I thought the planning that the city did during that last phase showed that it BRT would be more appropriate at this time to cross the river into NKC.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

Pork Chop wrote:
flyingember wrote: I am actually speaking about River Front Road and I am not saying to do it before a Main Street extension, but a route to add near the top of the list. Also, I thought the planning that the city did during that last phase showed that it BRT would be more appropriate at this time to cross the river into NKC.
True BRT work would make sense for an initial step. Could reconfigure the road through NKC for the dedicated path, skip the bridge for now and have split branches, one up north oak, another pair up 169 to 152 to serve key population centers along that corridor

That would drastically cut the initial cost and lead towards rail down the line.

And go look at the old ADM mill site and the railroad land through 16th, there's just as much room in NKC as at front street and that's before rezoning NKC for mixed use in select areas
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by UMKCroo »

I am as big of a supporter as there is for the streetcar, but I think we can all agree it is not a catchall solution to our transit woes. We should use the streetcar as an anchor to build and re-invent a comprehensive metro wide system. Anyone who uses the system on a regular basis will concur, a little money and thought will go a long way to a much more efficient and useful metro.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/busin ... 0002&abg=1

Then I see this today:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/ar ... 71362.html

Nice work KC! Transit momentum!
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Access to thousands of blue collar jobs in NKC and help eliminate some need for a super expensive i-35 widening for the tens of thousands of cars second creek will produce should beat out connecting to a casino.
The East Bottoms area has thousands of blue collar jobs, and white collar, also. Go pass the casino and on to 435. And that is all in KCMO.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by Demosthenes »

UMKCroo wrote:I am as big of a supporter as there is for the streetcar, but I think we can all agree it is not a catchall solution to our transit woes. We should use the streetcar as an anchor to build and re-invent a comprehensive metro wide system. Anyone who uses the system on a regular basis will concur, a little money and thought will go a long way to a much more efficient and useful metro.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/busin ... 0002&abg=1

Then I see this today:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/ar ... 71362.html

Nice work KC! Transit momentum!
This sounds awesome! I would much rather their be less actual stops and each stop have a nice shelter and be more like a Max stop. Most people don't need to be dropped off right in front of their destination. You can walk a few blocks. Now I'm sure the bus drivers would be willing to let a handicapped or elderly person off when they want. But everyone else can manage.

It would make the bus rides quicker, interfere with traffic less, and make for more understandable bus routes I think. And more Max type stations would be awesome for other bus routes. I primarily ride the Max into midtown because of the frequency and stations. Even if I want to go somewhere in Westport or on Broadway in midtown, I usually don't take the 47 or anything like that. Too unpredictable. I would rather go to a stop that tells me when the next bus is coming and has spaced out, dedicated stops to speed the trip, and walk the rest of the way.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by JBmidtown »

Demosthenes wrote:
UMKCroo wrote:I am as big of a supporter as there is for the streetcar, but I think we can all agree it is not a catchall solution to our transit woes. We should use the streetcar as an anchor to build and re-invent a comprehensive metro wide system. Anyone who uses the system on a regular basis will concur, a little money and thought will go a long way to a much more efficient and useful metro.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/busin ... 0002&abg=1

Then I see this today:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/ar ... 71362.html

Nice work KC! Transit momentum!
This sounds awesome! I would much rather their be less actual stops and each stop have a nice shelter and be more like a Max stop. Most people don't need to be dropped off right in front of their destination. You can walk a few blocks. Now I'm sure the bus drivers would be willing to let a handicapped or elderly person off when they want. But everyone else can manage.

It would make the bus rides quicker, interfere with traffic less, and make for more understandable bus routes I think. And more Max type stations would be awesome for other bus routes. I primarily ride the Max into midtown because of the frequency and stations. Even if I want to go somewhere in Westport or on Broadway in midtown, I usually don't take the 47 or anything like that. Too unpredictable. I would rather go to a stop that tells me when the next bus is coming and has spaced out, dedicated stops to speed the trip, and walk the rest of the way.
New shelters and less stops on all the busier routes across the system would be a huge improvement. That's always been my biggest pet peeve riding the bus: riding the 39th or other east-west route to transfer to the Main St Max, but just missing the MAX because someone wanted to be dropped off or picked up just a block before the Main St intersection. They easily could just walk an extra block to get where they were going, but instead everyone on the bus has to wait for the bus to stop, unload/load and then re accelerate. By then the MAX (which never waits long at any of the stops) is long gone and anyone wanting to the take the MAX has to wait another 10 minutes or, quite often, much longer. This sucks when you have places to be and need to be there on time.

Also, I dare some of you non bus riders to try to stand at a bus stop in single digit temperatures with sub zero wind chill bearing down on you, no shelter whatsoever, while you watch your bus stop at EVERY SINGLE BLOCK BEFORE REACHING YOU. It's soul shattering...

Bus shelters and dedicated stops are relatively cheap improvements compared to some of the other infrastructure improvements that the city is aiming towards. Streetcars are awesome, and can do alot to improve rider capacity and even speed if done right, but that's not on any transit rider's mind when they're still 15 blocks from Main St and it's raining, or snowing, or freezing and they have 45 minutes to be at work.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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taxi
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by taxi »

Nice! Good job, DJ.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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One has to give credit for all the time Dave has spent giving tours out of his own time.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by NDTeve »

cool article. Thanks!
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by JBmidtown »

Bus shelters!!!!!!!!
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by FangKC »

I agree with the shelters whether they be for buses or streetcars.

There is nothing that sucks the life out of you more than waiting in the rain or sub-zero winds. It particularly sucks if you are on the way into work for the day, and you get drenched with rain.

And I HATE shelters than don't have three protected sides, because without three sides, one is still vulnerable to heavy winds and blowing rain.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by JBmidtown »

Yeah, I'm very confused why they designed the streetcar shelters without walls to shelter against wind
mykn

Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by mykn »

JBmidtown wrote:Yeah, I'm very confused why they designed the streetcar shelters without walls to shelter against wind
I'm with everyone on the shelters here. My primary use of public transit (and definitely the streetcar) is going out at night, especially in the winter. Last thing I want to do is wait in the cold getting blasted with wind. The bus shelters at my university where enclosed and heated. That was the best! Although, I can see why we wouldn't want to do that here :)
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by FangKC »

JBmidtown wrote:Yeah, I'm very confused why they designed the streetcar shelters without walls to shelter against wind
Image

Yes, that was my first thought when I saw the design of the streetcar shelters. They are useless for the most part to protect one against strong winds and blowing rain.

As someone who stood at a bus shelter at least twice every workday for 10 years in NYC. I can say from experience that the streetcar shelters really won't shelter anyone well in bad weather. They will only serve to cover one's head in a light rain that hopefully is falling straight down. For the most part, they are a waste of money.

The streetcar authority should have done better. We aren't living in LA or Miami.

I've even seen four-sided shelters in some places. They are like little glass boxes with a small entrance.

Whomever designed that shelter is not someone who has used mass transit every day for a decade, and had to endure really bad weather during the experience.

I went for my first 2 1/2 years in Kansas City without a car. I was able to manage pretty well. However, one evening I was standing at the bus stop in Westport on Broadway in December waiting for the bus (which came every 60 minutes). There is no shelter there. I had been grocery shopping at Sun Fresh, and I lived downtown. I had six bags of groceries. It started pouring down rain very hard, and was windy to boot. The temperature was right at 32 degrees, and then it turned to sleet suddenly. I was being pelted by sleet that felt like small bullets hitting me. I was soaked, and my groceries were as well.

It was that day that I decided that Kansas City didn't care about people using mass transit, and I soon purchased a car. Many parts of the city have no bus shelter at the stops. Downtown included. There are some, but there are even many downtown locations that don't have a shelter.

I say the punishment for the people who selected the streetcar shelter should be one year of commuting on the streetcar, and using the shelters, in the worst weather possible. :lol:

Bus stop near 40th and Broadway.

Image

These are good designs for a bus shelter.

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by FangKC on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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FangKC
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by FangKC »

These are great designs.

Image

Image

Here is one that is both utilitarian and whimsical (in Japan).

Image

This is a great, larger-sized one in Madison, Wisconsin.

Image
Last edited by FangKC on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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FangKC
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by FangKC »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?
It's not about surviving. It's about providing transit users protection from bad weather. It's the least one can do. All sorts of expensive accommodations are made for people driving cars.
Last edited by FangKC on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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