We are wasting so much time, money and effort on yet another bistate plan...

[GRID]

Well, once again, JoCo leadership is stepping up to kill the smartmoves transit tax before it even gets off the ground.

Why can't the MO side counties do this and do it yesterday?  Forget JoCo, they are going to want every single dime they put into the pot spent in their county anyway which sort of defeats the whole idea of a bistate tax where the metro can concentrate resources on expensive regional needs and in this case, it will cost far more to improve transit in the city to create a regional spine vs adding commuter buses in the suburbs.  But then again, that is why even in smart moves, little will be done to create a world class transit system in the core of the city where everything else can feed into (gotta make all these suburban voters happy)  So move on.  MO side counties, let the MO side residents vote already and quit fooling around with JoCo.

JoCo, as long as you have people like O'Conner and others running the county, your image in the rest of the city will not change much.

Let the VOTERS decide, it's not like we are talking about science!

[KCK]

Once again GRID you totally ignore Wyandotte county as being a part of the metro area. Just because you don't like Johnson county doesn't mean that myself and the other residents of KCK don't need a good regional transit system.

[shaffe]

huh?  is there a story online about this or something we can read?

[KCK]

He is talking about SmartMoves which some believe will be Bi-State 3. Here is the thread about it.

http://www.kcskyscrapers.com/newforum/i ... pic=4302.0

[enough]

Well, once again, JoCo leadership is stepping up to kill the smartmoves transit tax before it even gets off the ground. ...

I think nearly everybody would agree that there are challenges in getting a Regional Investment Fund established for transit and related purposes.  We need a regional approach because we have a two-state regional economy in which people choose where to work and shop without regard to the state line or other jurisdictional boundaries.  What triggers this burst of pessimism vis a vis Johnson County? 

[dangerboy]

There was an article in the Star a week or so ago about how the mayors of OP, Lenexa, etc. are balking at the SmartMoves plan. They aren't endorsing it, even the basic idea of just setting up the laws to allow a vote in the future.  These mayors are complaining that they haven't had any input and it's all moving too fast.  That's bullshit because there have been hearings all around the metro for the last two years.  They say they haven't seen the proposed legislation, even though it's been available for all to see on the MARC web site for weeks.

But that's OK.  Grid, the proposed legislation is different from the bistate cultural compact.  There are no required counties in this one.  If any particular county rejects the tax, then Smart Moves goes on without them. 

It's also important to remember that Joco is no longer crucial to the financing.  Retail growth in Wyco, Eastern Jack, and the Northland since the first bistate means that Joco no longer has the lion's share of sales tax revenue.  The other counties can do this with or without them.

[GRID]

It was in this week's Business Journal.  O'Conner wants it dead in the water.

KCK, you are right, but in this case JoCo will hurt KCK as well.  KCK needs transit and will use transit far more than JoCo will, so more money per capita should be invested there, possibly more than Wyandotte puts into the pot.

Something needs to be done, but if we spend another half decade trying to prove to JoCo that it's OK to be a part of a regional effort only to have local politicians drum up opposition and false legends that only hurt it for everybody.

Try to get it done, but don't spend years trying.  Just go a different route and include WYCO some other way, so we can get this thing moving.

[GRID]

Smart moves has been in the news for years, MARC has put on open houses, they have gone to all areas of the city to educate people.  They have put a ton of effort into it and the mayors from places like Lenexa and Shawnee say it's being rushed etc.  State reps don't even want to bring it to Topeka and let it get off the ground.

JoCo is supposed to get a heavy rail commuter line.  That is a total waste of money right now, but they are doing it for the JoCo vote and thats fine.  But I-35 is not crowded enough, not enough people from JoCo work "downtown" and once the trains arrive at union station, there is no efficient way to move the commuters to office destinations throughout the greater downtown area.  It will be expensive, inefficient and will fail because we don't and won't have a full transit system in place when the JoCo line opens.

The metro needs to fund metro transit, but that system needs to include a spine where everything comes together.  We are not getting that and MAX won't cut it.

It's amazing that places like Dallas and Houston, mega sprawl centers, can build urban core rail spines and KC can't.

[enough]

The REAL resistance to regional funding will come if JoCo's I-35 corridor study recommends commuter rail -- instead of some form of BRT -- and they expect to pay for it out of the Regional Investment Fund.

[KCMax]

That's too bad because most people in JoCo I talk to overwhelmingly approve of some sort of bi-state regional transportation plan involving a rail system. It would be a shame if our elected officials are the ones that prevent Johnson County from participating in this because of petty feelings like they're not the ones in charge of a project.


Oh, and Kay O'Connor is an idiot.

[dangerboy]

That's too bad because most people in JoCo I talk to overwhelmingly approve of some sort of bi-state regional transportation plan involving a rail system. It would be a shame if our elected officials are the ones that prevent Johnson County from participating in this because of petty feelings like they're not the ones in charge of a project.

They say they support it, but they don't follow through and demand action from their elected representatives.  The mayors, city councilors, etc. only hear people talking about schools, roads, taxes, and zoning.  People need to do more than check the transit box on a survey, they need to actually demand it from their leaders, and then the leaders will follow.

[KCMax]

Well, to be honest, I don't think JoCo needs it as much as other areas. Our traffic simply isn't bad enough to warrant pressing action...yet. I agree that soon we will face major transportation issues, but of course Johnson Countians aren't going to demand action so long as KC Scout gets them to Downtown in half an hour.

[KCK]

Traffic isn't what I care about KCMax, in fact traffic problems are a very stupid reason to invest in transit. The best reason has to do with those who are unable to drive for whatever reason, be it disability, or economic factors, being able to get from point A to point B. Here in KCK there is a whole class of residents who can not drive. If it weren't for the barely fuctioning bit of transit that we do have, these people couldn't go anywhere ever.

Another good reason to invest in transit has to do with rising fuel costs and pollution. Traffic though is just a plain stupid reason to invest in transit. It completely ignores those who truly need public transit and it ignores the factors that we will have to face eventually in our oil driven society.

[dangerboy]

KCK needs better transit as much as KCMO, if not more so. And probably stands to gain more money than it puts into the regional fund. There's a huge (and growing) gulf between the poor and work class in the east and the new job growth in the west. 

Smart Moves would give KCK an east/west BRT line that would connect its urban core with Village West, KCKCC, and Downtown KCMO.  It's something that would be hard for KCK to do on it's own right now.  There would also be the Freeway Flyer busses along I-70 and connecting to KCI and the Joco office parks via I-435 and I-635.  The I-35 commuter rail would have a station in Rosedale.

KCK could see some huge transit improvements from Smart Moves, if their reps in Topeka can stand up to the Joco reps that want to kill it.

[KCMax]

Traffic isn't what I care about KCMax, in fact traffic problems are a very stupid reason to invest in transit.

Well, I agree, but the average taxpayer isn't going to see moving around those without vehicles as that pressing of an issue in Johnson County since they have cars. Now, I do think Johnson County should invest in transit because there are many workers that don't live in JoCo, but work there, that need transportation there. I saw a KC Week in Review episode where they focused on transportation and I was encouraged that some Representative from Olathe actually recognized that need.

[phxcat]

Wouldn't it be nice if Kay O'Conner would take her own advice and quit voting? 

You are right to fault the JoCo mayors on this one- I read that article too and couldn;t believe it.  However, once again, you are assuming that the Mo suburbs are any better.  They aren't.  Every part of KC is the same on this- if they don;t see themselves benefiting directly, they wil be against it.

[dangerboy]

They aren't.  Every part of KC is the same on this- if they don;t see themselves benefiting directly, they wil be against it.

Actually many of them are very eager for better transit options. I-70 is the worst commute in the city, and the river crossings aren't much better.  Eastern Jack would love to find some permanent funding for the popular Independence/Blue Springs express bus, and then expand that service.  There is also a big need for the suburb-to-suburb service in Smart Moves, serving the big surburban job centers in Joco and Platte County.

Polling indicates this will likely be approved by voters.  The issue right now is just getting the state legislatures to let it go on the ballot.  So far Kay and Co. are the only ones openly opposing the idea of letting the voters decide for themselves.  Most of the Missouri suburbs support putting it on the ballot and letting voters decide.

[GRID]

There is no opposition to the transit tax in the MO suburbs.  I haven't heard a peep from suburban leaders and mayors, other than optimism.  Now that's not to say that the MO suburbs wont' have issues with the transit tax, but I don't see it, especially at the level JoCo does.  I'm just saying, we are freaking decades behind in transit, I don't want JoCo to delay this any further, they will only be 5 percent of the metro ridership, even with commuter rail.  We need to get this going.

Not only was there the Star article a while back that said the JoCo mayors were not ready for this and felt rushed etc, the BJ article came out:

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... tory5.html

"JoCo aversion to bistate tax may stall plan"

If they're going to give us the same old proposal, I'm going to chew it up and spit it out," said Sen. Kay O'Connor, R-Olathe

Sen. Karin Brownlee, R-Olathe, said she isn't convinced that transit officials have taken every step possible to improve the current system using existing resources.

"As legislators, we hear those lines all the time -- 'Just give me more money, and we'll fix it.' And it's just bogus," she said. "I think it's going to be an uphill climb. There's a sense that Missouri continues to have their eye on Johnson County tax dollars for things that they need to fund themselves."

There are good guys, keep this guy in office JoCo"

"Kansas City-area voters would support the tax, Rep. David Huff, R-Lenexa, said he thinks the proposal stands a strong chance of passing in the Kansas Legislature. Huff said he will sponsor the bill"

[dangerboy]

There will be *some* opposition in the MO suburbs, but the difference between MO and KS is it will be from private groups and not elected politcal leaders.  Groups like the Jackson County Taxpayers Association and Neighborhood Action Group that reliably oppose any tax proposal or redevelopment plan. 

[bahua]

If JoCo is the squeaky wheel in this deal, then why include them? If it's a bistate vote, just include WyCo, where they value transit more, anyway, and let the folks south of 47th St have their suburban paradise.

This might sound a bit hostile, but why try to force something they don't want?