Missouri Amtrak Service

Transportation topics in KC
langosta
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by langosta »

Increasing speeds would do a whole lot more for me than a third frequency. A 8am or 12pm departure is going to cost you a day of work either way. Wifi has admittedly gotten better but still too limited to work remote for big chunks of the trip.

Pleasure travelers almost always have the option of driving or taking the bus for 2 less hours of travel time.

Are there any guesses as to what would be required to bump average speeds to 70-80mph? How much are we talking?
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by shinatoo »

langosta wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:22 pm Increasing speeds would do a whole lot more for me than a third frequency. A 8am or 12pm departure is going to cost you a day of work either way. Wifi has admittedly gotten better but still too limited to work remote for big chunks of the trip.

Pleasure travelers almost always have the option of driving or taking the bus for 2 less hours of travel time.

Are there any guesses as to what would be required to bump average speeds to 70-80mph? How much are we talking?
Hear! Hear!
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by DaveKCMO »

Quite a bit. There was a study awhile back that identified all of the chokepoints, but the route itself isn't very direct if you're focused on KC-STL travel time. I really thought we'd save some time after the ARRA-funded improvements but it just helped on-time performance.

As with public transit, operating dollars are more scarce than capital (as witnessed by the state's willingness to fund the 2nd round-trip only through the end of 2021) so that's why I would prefer the midday round-trip. Let's do both!
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by Chris Stritzel »

I know the speed is an issue for many people, but for those who just want to take it slow and steady, Amtrak is the way to go. I would like it if they increased the speeds a bit in order to cut travel time, but that would probably require the state to step up.
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by flyingember »

The problem with speed increases is the problem will move to somewhere new.

Fast track, slow freight rail still going slow on it.

If we want faster rail, the investment needs to be in going to three tracks the whole length and ban freight from one.


At 283 miles, if there was a 120mph line in place that's ~3 hours with stops. That's faster than driving so it's suddenly service competitive.

At a little over half the time to cross the state today, the route could be run twice as often.

So trains fill more and there's double the revenue opportunity.
T_Wero
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by T_Wero »

Amtrak Performance Report for August 2021:

(these are from stats that I record/compile more or less using the same metrics and methodology as Amtrak. I don't log/track any of the Lincoln Service or Texas Eagle trains out of STL. sorry)


River Runner Service:
(note: all River Runner trains were cancelled for 2 days on Aug 9th and 10th due to a Union Pacific derailment near Holden and thus only have 29 counted service days)

Train 311: STL-KCY
72.41% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 14 minutes late
Average trip length: 5 hours 54 minutes

Train 316: KCY-STL
82.76% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 9 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 46 minutes

Train 313: STL-KCY
75.86% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 9 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 49 minutes

Train 314: KCY-STL
72.41% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 11 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 50 minutes


Southwest Chief:
(note: being a long distance train, a few different metrics are used here. I only track it between KCY and CHI)

Train #3: CHI-KCY
51.6% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 28 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 7 hours 38 minutes

Train #4: KCY-CHI
41.9% On-time (arriving with 30 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 53 minutes late into CHI
Average Trip Length: 7 hours 47 minutes
14 On-time departures out of KCY
17 Late departures out of KCY
Average KCY departure: 28 minutes late
Riverite
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by Riverite »

T_Wero wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:36 am Amtrak Performance Report for August 2021:

(these are from stats that I record/compile more or less using the same metrics and methodology as Amtrak. I don't log/track any of the Lincoln Service or Texas Eagle trains out of STL. sorry)


River Runner Service:
(note: all River Runner trains were cancelled for 2 days on Aug 9th and 10th due to a Union Pacific derailment near Holden and thus only have 29 counted service days)

Train 311: STL-KCY
72.41% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 14 minutes late
Average trip length: 5 hours 54 minutes

Train 316: KCY-STL
82.76% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 9 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 46 minutes

Train 313: STL-KCY
75.86% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 9 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 49 minutes

Train 314: KCY-STL
72.41% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 11 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 5 hours 50 minutes


Southwest Chief:
(note: being a long distance train, a few different metrics are used here. I only track it between KCY and CHI)

Train #3: CHI-KCY
51.6% On-time (arriving within 15 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 28 minutes late
Average Trip Length: 7 hours 38 minutes

Train #4: KCY-CHI
41.9% On-time (arriving with 30 minutes of scheduled time)
Average Arrival: 53 minutes late into CHI
Average Trip Length: 7 hours 47 minutes
14 On-time departures out of KCY
17 Late departures out of KCY
Average KCY departure: 28 minutes late
Oof is there any way to improve their arrival times?
T_Wero
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by T_Wero »

As far as River Runner Service goes.......
Convince UP to stop with their ridiculous PSR (Precision Schedule Railroad) nonsense. LOL

Seriously though. I wouldn't expect these numbers to improve that much in the month of Sept. UP just started a tie replacement program at California, MO a few days ago. I'm not sure how far or how long it is going to take...but lots of speed restrictions can be expected.
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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Why is the boarding process so absolutely brain dead for amtrack? It isn’t an airline, there is an entire train platform with multiple doors. The experience on European trains (obviously excluding speed and quality of infrastructure) is the boarding process is pretty straightforward. Train rolls in, doors open, you get on, doors close, leave station. No checking baggage, or getting people in one line to board. If they want to increase headway’s super easily, this is an obvious step they should take.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by DaveKCMO »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:38 pm Why is the boarding process so absolutely brain dead for amtrack? It isn’t an airline, there is an entire train platform with multiple doors. The experience on European trains (obviously excluding speed and quality of infrastructure) is the boarding process is pretty straightforward. Train rolls in, doors open, you get on, doors close, leave station. No checking baggage, or getting people in one line to board. If they want to increase headway’s super easily, this is an obvious step they should take.
So frustrating. They're trying (perhaps?) to emulate airlines and there's certainly a challenge with big variations of platforms and stations across the Amtrak system, but even in DC it's a cluster for no apparent reason. The consists are relatively the same from day to day, so just note a car number on the ticket or assign it via email before departure. Walk to the car number (as they do with sleeping car passengers) and board as soon as the train arrives. None of that OMG give me the little green paper with my seat assignment madness.

If I had to guess, it's "Amtrak Security" dictating that certain stations should not allow platform access until the train has arrived but if you've boarded at small stations (not KC) this works quite well.
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by flyingember »

The TSA has some authority over passenger rail. Not to the same scale obviously as air travel but you can find TSA + FRA and TSA + FTA content.

I would not be surprised to learn that the TSA says some regulation applies and this is how Amtrak decided to implement it because it didn't come with any direct cost.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by DaveKCMO »

These boarding procedures predate the TSA.
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by WoodDraw »

matthew yglesias has a lot on this if you Google his name plus Amtrak. It was addressed in an ig report at wonder point.

It's absurd
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by flyingember »

DaveKCMO wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 am These boarding procedures predate the TSA.
And the TSA being involved makes them more likely to change?
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normalthings
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by normalthings »

FRA has KC-STL in the regional category of their new rail plan.
Regional
90–125mph
Frequent service; dedicated and shared tracks; electric- and diesel-powered
Regional service offers 16 trains per day.

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot ... 20PDFa.pdf
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by shinatoo »

normalthings wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:06 pm FRA has KC-STL in the regional category of their new rail plan.
Regional
90–125mph
Frequent service; dedicated and shared tracks; electric- and diesel-powered
Regional service offers 16 trains per day.

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot ... 20PDFa.pdf
Wake me up when something actually happens. The government has been talking, issuing studies, about improving rail between STl and KC going back at least back to 1990.
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FangKC
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by FangKC »

Amtrak chief thrilled by Biden's infrastructure deal
Amtrak CEO Bill Flynn told "Axios on HBO" the $66 billion coming to rail through the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill will be "absolutely transformational" and "more funding than we've had in our 50 years of history combined."
...
https://www.axios.com/amtrak-infrastruc ... axiosonhbo
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by flyingember »

Not too shabby a start.

New track apparently costs up to $2 million per mile
If it was 100% spent on track that's enough to lay 33,000 miles

To put that in comparison, Network Rail (UK) has 20,000 miles of track for 60 million people.

So just spent on track, we could have 1/3 the network of the UK per capita.

Hopefully it's spent heavily on improving travel times and frequency across the network and making rail travel cost and speed competitive with air travel.
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normalthings
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:11 am Not too shabby a start.

New track apparently costs up to $2 million per mile
If it was 100% spent on track that's enough to lay 33,000 miles

To put that in comparison, Network Rail (UK) has 20,000 miles of track for 60 million people.

So just spent on track, we could have 1/3 the network of the UK per capita.

Hopefully it's spent heavily on improving travel times and frequency across the network and making rail travel cost and speed competitive with air travel.
Isnt $10 billion for NEC
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GRID
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Re: Missouri Amtrak Service

Post by GRID »

normalthings wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:13 am
flyingember wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:11 am Not too shabby a start.

New track apparently costs up to $2 million per mile
If it was 100% spent on track that's enough to lay 33,000 miles

To put that in comparison, Network Rail (UK) has 20,000 miles of track for 60 million people.

So just spent on track, we could have 1/3 the network of the UK per capita.

Hopefully it's spent heavily on improving travel times and frequency across the network and making rail travel cost and speed competitive with air travel.
Isnt $10 billion for NEC
I heard more than that. There are a couple of tunnel projects alone that will cost 10-20 billion each and those won't put a dent in what needs to be done with the entire NE corridor to ever get true HSR going.
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