N-S Bike Path in Urban Core

[Riverite]

I was thinking about how nice it would be to have a north south bike path going the length of the city. What street would work the best for a separated bike path from downtown to the start of the trolley track trail. I was thinking Paseo, but am unsure

[TheLastGentleman]

I was thinking about how nice it would be to have a north south bike path going the length of the city. What street would work the best for a separated bike path from downtown to the start of the trolley track trail. I was thinking Paseo, but am unsure

Troost maybe? It gets chopped off at Columbus Park, but otherwise is uninterrupted I think.

[swid]

Other than detours around the office buildings at Crown Center and having to cut back to the west at the south end, Grand-McGee Trafficway-Gillham has reasonably gentle gradients overall.

[DaveKCMO]

Broadway, Troost, Prospect, Gillham/Grand, Paseo, Charlotte -- all proposed at various times and shot down by (in no particular order) Public Works, Churches, Council/Mayor, Business Owners, Neighborhood Associations.

It's amazing that Armour ever happened. Gillham only happened in part because of Jolie Justus. Paseo is still in play, but will likely end up with sharrow sections so what's the point?

It's not for lack of trying, we just need to grow a spine and get one done or just build 10' sidewalks/shared use paths everywhere (which is what a portion of Gillham will be).

[Riverite]

Broadway, Troost, Prospect, Gillham/Grand, Paseo -- all proposed at various times and shot down by (in no particular order) Public Works, Churches, Council/Mayor, Business Owners, Neighborhood Associations.

It's amazing that Armour ever happened. Gillham only happened in part because of Jolie Justus. Paseo is still in play, but will likely end up with sharrow sections so what's the point?

It's not for lack of trying, we just need to grow a spine and get one done or just build 10' sidewalks/shared use paths everywhere (which is what a portion of Gillham will be).

I love the bike paths we are putting in, I guess the point for me would be an easy and safe way to get through multiple neighborhoods, or have a long bike commute. Kansas City has definitely made progress, but there are definitely parts where biking on the street still feels unsafe by cars

[DaveKCMO]

* I added Charlotte.

[Riverite]

* I added Charlotte.

Thanks for the comments, it’s definitely interesting, I wonder if now would be the time to get something like that done. As there are fewer people commuting and more people biking

[DaveKCMO]

* I added Charlotte.

Thanks for the comments, it’s definitely interesting, I wonder if now would be the time to get something like that done. As there are fewer people commuting and more people biking

Maybe with a federal stimulus/green new deal. You know they can't seem to build anything bike-related without federal grants. That's another thing that holds up KCMO projects: red tape and MoDOT.

[KCPowercat]

I debated putting this in the city walks thread or here but this is more urban core focus even though it's not biking it might help figure out a route.

Since the pandemic I've been doing a lot of walks from downtown to friend's house in west plaza or plaza generally. I've done four different routes so far and looking for a new route. Headed out again Friday. I don't mind going a little out of the way but generally don't want to add a mile to my route due to time.

So far here are my four routes:
First route - Down Summit out of downtown, SW Trafficway to Roanoke, through Roanoke Park, down Terrace from 31st I think to my destination windindg through a few different roads. Pros - Avoiding the midtown hill, good neighborhoods, quiet streets. No real cons except not the most direct path
Second Route - Again down summit, to 27th, over to Jarboe (under 35), west on 31st (don't do this), then basically the same route as above using Roanoke and then random roads south of 31st. Cons - 31st hill has no sidewalks, still quite a hill up Jarboe just to go down it on 31st
Third route - Down Broadway to 26th to the penn valley pond (don't do this), through PV to 31st and down Pennsylvannia, hit Westport, then down broadway to the plaza then west. Cons: 26th and Broadway is a pedestrian dead end. I thought there was a crossing there. Ended up walking along the east side of broadway Penn Valley till found a break in traffic to get to the newly redone nice pedestrian part of the park. Should have just went down Summit again and popped out the other side to the park. Pros - even better neighborhoods
Fourth route - Down main, through Liberty memorial, then down Wyandotte to westport road then down broadway. Only con to this route was getting down to Wyandotte to got attacked by birds. Definately the best route and the midtown hill isn't nearly as bad when using Liberty memorial grounds to break it up.

So what is my next route? I've walk up Gillham or Charlotte quite a few times to get to martini corner but going that route and through Hyde Park adds over a mile to my route. I think I've tapped out the more westside main routes though.

[DaveKCMO]

My husband won't walk down the Trafficway or Main. Too noisy and trafficky. Google says it's fastest to walk down the Trafficway. Sidewalks are way too narrow and traffic moving way too fast. SWT is the BEST candidate for a street makeover in all of KC. Could be very transformational for Midtown.

From Crossroads, we usually walk through PVP and at 31st head down Broadway, Wyandotte, Central, or Pennsylvania. Gillham is much nicer for walking now, too. We zig-zag a lot when we have the time. Before COVID we would walk down and bus/Uber back if it was too hot.

This walk is VERY manageable and I don't know why more people aren't doing it.

[KCPowercat]

I won't do SW TFWY either for the same reason. If I'm going to walk I want it enjoyable and it's easy to go one block EW.

It is manageable but there is a definate ped/bike barrier, that was partial due to the physical enviornment, right around 31st. There are few throughways especially west of main.

[Eon Blue]

PVP and other super blocks along the hill are big psychological barriers. If it was contiguous city all the way through I'm sure it would be a lot more popular. It's essentially a continuous swath of pedestrian dead space between 19th Street and 25th or 31st, depending on how far east or west you're walking. PVP is aesthetically pleasing but imposing vertically. The grade on Main or Grand isn't bad, but you have to contend with speeding traffic and surface lot wasteland. Oak/Gillham has speeding traffic. Holmes, Charlotte, and Troost all have steep grades without much enticement to keep you going.

[KCPowercat]

PVP is definetely the easiest path up I've found so far. The side walkway to the east of the memorial really helps.

Grand isn't too bad except the space between crown center and union hill. Union Hill is obviously a steep grade but the neighborhood helps.

[herrfrank]

I won't do SW TFWY either for the same reason. If I'm going to walk I want it enjoyable and it's easy to go one block EW.

It is manageable but there is a definite ped/bike barrier, that was partial due to the physical environment, right around 31st. There are few throughways especially west of main.

Although not in the city budget, SW Tfwy would make an excellent candidate for tunneling like often done with thoroughfares in European cities. The modern tunneling machines could make quick work of two, 20-foot-diameter tubes, starting about 10 feet below the current road surface. Running from somewhere around 45th street to somewhere north of 31st street. It would open up plentiful opportunities for the surface right-of-way.

[Riverite]

I won't do SW TFWY either for the same reason. If I'm going to walk I want it enjoyable and it's easy to go one block EW.

It is manageable but there is a definite ped/bike barrier, that was partial due to the physical environment, right around 31st. There are few throughways especially west of main.

Although not in the city budget, SW Tfwy would make an excellent candidate for tunneling like often done with thoroughfares in European cities. The modern tunneling machines could make quick work of two, 20-foot-diameter tubes, starting about 10 feet below the current road surface. Running from somewhere around 45th street to somewhere north of 31st street. It would open up plentiful opportunities for the surface right-of-way.

Put the entire traffic way underground? Would it just be the East west running streets at ground level?

[kcmiz]

Agree Southwest Trafficway would be a great candidate for a north to south path. This would obviously have to be part of a major reworking of that street with traffic calming.

I’d envision a grade separated two-way mixed use path/trail along the east side of Southwest Trafficway. Some sort of hybrid between the Trolley Trail and the Hudson Greenway in NYC. This could run from Southwest Blvd to Westport with connections to the east at Penn Valley Park and Linwood. Bonus would be to find a way to connect to the plaza and the Trolley Trail (perhaps Mill St through Westport to Mill Creek Park then across Brush Creek).

This could be a game changer to creating a safe way to cycle/run/walk the length of the west side of the urban core.

[KCPowercat]

I had a pipe dream once of bridging greenspace over Broadway through PVP to connect the park into one even bigger park.

[kcmiz]

I had a pipe dream once of bridging greenspace over Broadway through PVP to connect the park into one even bigger park.

The amount of wasted space that Broadway and its I-35 tentacles take away from the park is criminal.

It’s like a microcosm of Missouri: endless pothole-filled roads for days. It would not surprise me if concrete/asphalt took up 20% of the park’s area.

Penn Valley park has so much potential to be a world-class urban park. But at the moment it basically has a giant highway cutting it in half taking people through it at 50MPH.

[herrfrank]

Although not in the city budget, SW Tfwy would make an excellent candidate for tunneling like often done with thoroughfares in European cities. The modern tunneling machines could make quick work of two, 20-foot-diameter tubes, starting about 10 feet below the current road surface. Running from somewhere around 45th street to somewhere north of 31st street. It would open up plentiful opportunities for the surface right-of-way.

Put the entire traffic way underground? Would it just be the East west running streets at ground level?

Yes, route the entire Southwest Trafficway into two tunnels. Two-lanes-each, 20- or possibly 24-foot tubes, one northbound and one southbound. No exits. There would be a south portal somewhere between 45th and 44th street, with the northbound right lane diverging for "local traffic until 27th street." A north portal could emerge halfway down the PVP hill, with a similar diversion to the right from I-35 for southbound local traffic. 27th would possibly terminate at the north portal with a northbound SWT to eastbound 27th exit, allowing the northbound traffic to I-35 and the southbound traffic from I-35 essentially to flow nonstop from/ to the Plaza.

Elon Musk's The Boring Company claims it can do jobs like this for 10 million per mile; it would be an interesting challenge to his "personality" to engage him in such a project. The city could readily find support to issue a 100 million dollar bond for such an important corridor. Certainly could be a cheap thrill if it actually happened.

Paris and Cologne each have several tunnels like this to handle "through" traffic that would otherwise disrupt intermediate neighborhoods.

The existing surface ROW would need to include a street (probably to be re-christened as Summit) to handle local traffic. And with the width that exists, the city could also provide a grade-separated bike and ped path in both directions, plus some green space. I would wager that exclusive of Sun Fresh stops, 75%+ of the existing traffic continues through from 47th Street to I-35 and v.v.

[TheLastGentleman]

I think this was normalthing’s idea, but I’d love if PVP and Liberty Memorial and its grounds were consolidated into a unified, National Parks Service-run grand park.